Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

mite out break

17K views 45 replies 16 participants last post by  Mtn. Bee 
#1 ·
talked to a guy from our bee club and he said he had heard of a out break with mites any news on this?
 
#3 ·
yes I ,know mites are everywhere and I know how to test for them a few ways. It was just that he told me it was a big out break and maybe people that dont use chemicals might have to. But I got a feeling he was talking about when we get our packages in the spring. They come from calif.
 
#5 ·
All i know is that ive lost 20 hives this year. All my Nucs are fine and the only ones ive lost are production hives. To this point my apairies have been all ferel stock. They usually fend off the mites. I dont know whats going on but im down to 49 hives and kinda frustrated about rebuilding in the spring. I did buy some queens last year but they are in the nucs. All of the dead out clusters have plenty of honey and just a fist full of bees frozen. They were all busting in the fall. It has to be varroa destructer.
 
#11 ·
All i know is that ive lost 20 hives this year. All my Nucs are fine
This pattern follows what MP talks about often; He doesn't treat nucs but does treat production hives.

Mel Disselkoen takes it a step farther and says production hives given a QC and broodbreak in July don't need treatments either. He also states since that is the most common time for bees to supersede, many folks think a survivor hive has superior genetics when in fact it was the natural brood break that saved the hive.
 
#7 ·
Well, I think we are all faced with 2 choices. Treat our bees and never let them build up tolerence against varroa or let them sort it out. Obviously some of my hives are hygenic enough to handle it. Last year i only lost a couple with no treatment. Im not sure what went wrong this year. It is what it is =) It sure does suck when it goes wrong...
 
#9 ·
It's a numbers game, hygenic behavior only goes so far and at a certain mite population the colony will collapse because too much brood is being lost by bees cleaning them out and/or mite pressure is killing them regardless. Then the cluster slowly shrinks through winter as the older bees die off or leave with mites.
 
#12 ·
Mel Disselkoen makes a lot of sense and the reason I'm splitting in July with walk away splits. Breaking the cycle is usually a good answer to most pests of all kinds across the spectrum. When the chain is left unbroken is usually when booms occur which overwhelm. Swarming may just be the closest thing to "naturally" dealing with the mites. To me, walk away splits simulate this for at least half the split. Maybe queen sequestering would work for the other half to keep brood limited and away from drone production thus knocking the mites back.
 
#14 ·
On the issue of swarming possibly being the way bees treat themselves for mites.
I have seen information that the break in brood to a large degree starts well before actually swarming. possible weeks before. Think about the back filling of the brood nest that is commonly known to happen. how is this effecting the mite? Mites are coming out of cells on emerging brood but finding no cells to enter or doing so to many mites per cell etc. This all is leading up to a reduction of mites do to being over populated in the hive that is producing fewer and fewer places for them to go. keeping many of them exposed to being groomed or chewed by the bees. Ending in a period of no brood for a period of time.
 
#20 ·
not sure what he meant but I will see him this sunday and ask and let ya know. I am thinking that he was refuring to the package bees we get from calif that they have a good chance of having lots of mites on them and ya might have to treat right away when ya get them. Because I believe he said that calif is having a problem with lots of mites in hives, I will find out more info on sunday and post it.
 
#23 ·
since the lifespan of a female varroa mite is two to three months in the summer, and six to eight months in the winter, i'm not sure how brood breaks and swarms would offer too much in the way of mite control.
 
#25 ·
It would act similar to drone trapping, starving the mites of opportunity to lay. The total elimination of mites with splitting/swarming would not happen. Nothing different than many other methods including chemical, mites are knocked back to less critical levels. 2 reproductive cycles are achieved by female mites. Splitting/swarming might allow less mites a second chance as well as allowing for less viable male mites. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~msbain/elbka/Varroa destructor.pdf
 
#24 ·
I am not so sure I understand how it works. But I see people claiming it does all the time. I have seen information that indicates that crowding of the mites has a negative impact on their ability to reproduce. I can't recall where I saw that though.
 
#26 ·
>mites are knocked back...

understood ncb, but so are the bees, and the net % infestation is what is important.

i don't know if much is gained by brood breaks, but then i haven't seen any science on it either.
 
#35 ·
depends who you listen to.

i'm not sure i'm sold on the fact that genetic resistance can be counted on 100%, especially considering most queens are going to be open mated. even the strongest and most resistant bees are going to have a limit on how much they can take, and it is the strongest colonies that are most likely to rob the crashing ones.

i can easily see how just one colony crashing with mites and getting robbed could easily spread the infestation like a domino effect to other colonies in the yard.

as if the mites sucking the hemolymph out of the bees wasn't bad enough, if they are vectoring a very virulent virus as well it could mean the end of an otherwise healthy, productive, and for the most part resistant colony.

plus, allowing mites to crash a colony and move on to another selects for those kind of mites that kill their host, instead of mites that are less virulent and don't crash a colony.

i'll be the first to admit that counting mites has not been a part of my bee management. my bees have been doing fine and have not been treated for mites, and they are descended from bees that have never been treated.

i had my first hive crash to mites this fall. luckily i caught it before it got robbed. there were so few bees and it was so late in the season that i just shook them out.

i plan to use my alcohol jar a lot more going forward. in the spring, i'll want to know what the mite levels are to help me decide which colonies to graft new queens from and which colonies to pinch the queen from and use for splits and mating nucs. in the summer, after the honey harvest, i can requeen colonies with high mite counts or make up nucs to sell or overwinter.

i am hopeful i can propagate my bees in this way and avoid treating for mites. i do think it is risky to not do mite counts and not have a plan in place to deal with a high infestation if you find it.

beekeeping is not inexpensive and a involves a lot of sweat. letting hives crash costs money, time, and lost harvest. again, i'm not convinced just letting hives die out is the way to go.
 
#37 ·
i bought my bees from a supplier nearby, who has propagated them from feral bees he and his father cut out of the woods over ten years ago. he claims never using treatments of any kind, and he is a very trustworthy fellow.

i guess it's possible the swarms that created those feral colonies may have been treated many years ago, but what i have are long term survivors. this is one reason i would rather not treat them if i can help it.
 
#43 ·
>However, I would not think that a hive would swarm that late in the year ......

not likely, especially four out of the same yard.

you might be able to figure it out when you get a chance to look at the comb real good.

post pictures if you can.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top