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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Jackson, MO
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    Default I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    With some directions from my Uncle, I went back to Grandpa's farm to look for more of his bee equipment. It was where I was told, unfortunately the shed he kept it in collapsed several years ago on top of it. But there in the frozen snow and rotting wood was bee boxes and frames sticking up out of the mess. And guess what the first frame I pulled out was? A foundationless frame.

    100_1318.jpg100_1319.jpg

    Seems like his apiary was cutting edge, 8 frame boxes, foundationless frames, Kelley type N slotted frames, basswood comb honey supers, and a drone trap.

    I really wish he was still here now so we could discuss this new hobby for me. I really have learned alot about him the past few weekends going thru this old stuff.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,050

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    There is a window of opportunity where wisdom can be past on to enthusiasm. If you miss it it is a shame...
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    JACKSON OHIO
    Posts
    485

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    Foundationless is a very old practice man started tinkering with the wax to make bigger bees in theroy to haul more nector. Many years ago beekeepers keep bees for the honey to use as sugar to cook and sweeten with you just couldnt run to walmart and grab a bag because sugar was a luxuary not a need. The bees were also needed for pollenation on the family farms and orchards. think of bee gums with sticks hanging in the top of them and crush and strain that is how long foundationless has been around.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Columbia, Maryland. U.S.A.
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    252

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    He kept the colonies in the shed or just equipment ? Sounds like fun

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Jackson, MO
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    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryland Beekeeper View Post
    He kept the colonies in the shed or just equipment ? Sounds like fun
    The equipment was in the shed. His bee yard was located behind the shed for many years. Mom said he kept around 20 hives, sold the honey at his country store he ran from 1941 till 1985. When I was growing up, he only had 1 hive that I remembered, it was located in a barn where I found some other stuff a few weeks back. That hive produce comb honey for personal use as I was growing up. I was too young to work the bees with him, I did harvest the supers with him one time. That was all about 40 years ago.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
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    6,808

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    Foundationless is not as old as top bar hives.
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    553

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    Bees have been making comb from scratch since day one. But I was thinking the Foundationless Frame was a modern idea of the last few years in a Langstroth hive. When did it come about?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Big Stone Gap, VA
    Posts
    914

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    Neat post JD. Thanks for sharing.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    But I was thinking the Foundationless Frame was a modern idea of the last few years in a Langstroth hive. When did it come about?
    When Lorenzo Langstroth took a Champagne shipping box and built wood frames to fit it and put some bees in it... Wax foundation didn't arrive on the scene for at least 50 years after that.

    I have a copy of the Langstroth patent from Oct 5th 1852 and he states: "I draw a line of melted wax down the center of the frame, and the bees commence drawing their comb from there."
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Columbia, Maryland. U.S.A.
    Posts
    252

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    I think the presumption of foundation-less might be premature. I have heard of greenwood twigs bent between frames and painted w/ beeswax, string, ect..Frame could/would have been boiled, any holes in it ?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,716

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    > When Lorenzo Langstroth took a Champagne shipping box and built wood frames to fit it and put some bees in it... Wax foundation didn't arrive on the scene for at least 50 years after that.


    Well, perhaps not exactly.

    Langstroth received an American patent for his frame system in 1852. But other frames of a different design had been around since 1789.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Langstroth

    Foundation was first made in Germany in 1842.
    http://www.beesource.com/point-of-vi...ations-part-1/

    Another reference on foundation history, although in this one the first mention of foundation is in 1857:
    http://www.beesource.com/point-of-vi...dation-part-1/


    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 01-08-2013 at 07:42 PM. Reason: add another foundation link
    Graham
    --- Victor Hugo - "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    553

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryland Beekeeper View Post
    I think the presumption of foundation-less might be premature. I have heard of greenwood twigs bent between frames and painted w/ beeswax, string, ect..Frame could/would have been boiled, any holes in it ?
    It is pretty rotten, been exposed to weather for many years.

    I did use it for a template to make some of my own. That is what I brought the stuff back for, templates for design. I need to make an 8 frame hive now, and some comb supers. I found a box of the basswood boxes this weekend too. I need to order some thin foundation for them.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    553

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    double post

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,464

    Default Re: I Thought Going Foundationless Was a Modern Idea!

    >Foundationless is not as old as top bar hives.

    If we are talking about the old Greek basket hive they are older. But they were also foundationless...

    Many historic references to foundationless frames here:

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm
    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnotinve...tionlessframes
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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