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oxalic acid dribble

21K views 59 replies 21 participants last post by  Rolande 
#1 ·
Being the straight shooter I am, I would never consider using an unapproved compound in one of my hives. On the other hand, I have a friend who isn’t so proper. My friend applied an oxalic acid dribble to about 15 of his hives yesterday. Afterward he put clean corrugated sheets underneath those with screened bottoms. We stopped by that yard today and pulled sheets from beneath the hives that had screened bottoms. A half a dozen mites here…a few there and I….er… we were beginning to think the whole exercise was a waste until we got to this hive.

Some of the hives had solid bottoms, so we weren’t able to look at those but nine had sbb and this was the only one with a big fallout but my-oh-my did they fall out.
 
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#3 ·
Ahhhh...you've had a friend who's done this too.
PS...this was less than twenty four hours....makes me wonder why this hive dropped so many so quickly.
 
#6 ·
I really don't have an opinion. I've managed to get by with a single, late summer/early fall treatment using a thymol product. But then, last spring my mite loads exploded....and by the time I realized it, the flow was on and there wasn't anything to do. I ended up doing a post harvest, hopguard summer treatment that I didn't complete because of the heat.
So this year I ....my friend decided to be proactive...in case this winter ends up as mild as last.
And to answer your question....this is my friend's first experience using oxalic acid. He plans to apply it to his remaining hives over the next couple of weeks. Since his hives are broodless...or nearly so....the dribble method looked good.
 
#8 ·
My friend likes to split a big double and flip the top box upside down and trickle down through the bottom bars and then between the top bars in the lower box. I'm sure he said he uses a 3.2% solution. Boy are his bees looking good right now. Darn if his name dosent escape me at the moment.
 
#9 ·
. I'm sure he said he uses a 3.2% solution.
My friend used the same concentration....what a coincidence. On his double deeps he removed the top, trickled the bees below, returned the top and trickled those above.
His hives are lookin' pretty good too......
 
#16 ·
My friend has a friend that knows a commercial guy that reccomends treatments of 5 ml per seam no more then 50 ml total once a week for 3 weeks to cover one round of brood.

Why does everyone repeat that this is harmful?
Does anyone have a friend that does this?
 
#18 ·
once a week for 3 weeks to cover one round of brood.
Everything I've read states specifically that 1 treatment per year is the max. The idea for the dribble is to catch them clustered without brood...so all of the mites are phoretic. According to the studies I've read it can drop 90+%...so in theory my friend will go into spring with only a few mites. Fingers are crossed.
 
#21 ·
Good thread. I have a friend who is really interested in this method as well. He will attempt a treatment in a few weeks, weather permitting if his hive is still alive. He did treat with Formic acid though very late in the season, end of NOV think it was. Would a treatment of oxallic be worth it for him?? Remnants of the formic strip are still in the hive and will be pulled in a few weeks weather permitting. Not sure the oxcallic will do anything??

One thing I gathered from the link is that its easy to screw up. Beemandan... could "your friend" have hit the stream right on the mark and had everything dialed in just perfect for this one hive, resulting in a huge mite drop? And.. maybe the others he was not so on the mark??? Dont know this is possible or not but seems like maybe. Something to think about.

Dan in NY
 
#22 ·
Beemandan... could "your friend" have hit the stream right on the mark and had everything dialed in just perfect for this one hive, resulting in a huge mite drop? And.. maybe the others he was not so on the mark???
I can’t think of anything that would have been different in the application to this hive. It was somewhere near the middle of the process. The same mix, the same applicator…I just can’t imagine anything done that much differently.
My current best guess is that this hive was untreated at the end of the season. It is in a yard where laggards are taken for nurturing. Sometimes, at normal mite treatment times a colony of bees will appear to be unusually weak and my friend will skip its mite treatment. Any treatments (including oxalic acid) are disruptive to the bees and a colony that is already in distress can be easily pushed over the brink by the miticide…in this case it would have been Apiguard.
So my best guess is that this hive was untreated and its wintertime mite load was dramatically higher than its neighbors.
After looking at the sheet yesterday, I…..we did a bit more of an inspection. The cluster is quite large and appears vigorous. Having said that, if it was this heavily parasitized its prospects of surviving the remainder of the winter aren’t good….in my opinion.
 
#24 ·
Dan, I think this is a phenomena that happens pretty regularly, I don't know why. My theory (in my situation) is that it is probably a queen that escaped our requeening process in the spring as we do some combining and occassionally end up with a second queen, also perhaps drone drift. In reviewing our testing results from last September I see universally low single digit mite numbers in 24 samples pulled in 4 yards and a single reading in the high teens. These readings are post thymol and pre oxalic. I have seen this for years I no longer find it concerning because it dosent appear to be worsening. I just chalk it up to the impossibility of uniformity in all things beekeeping.
 
#27 ·
Dan, I think this is a phenomena that happens pretty regularly
Yeah Jim, I wasn't too concerned about it but it was a curiosity. My friend made a note and marked the hive...so we shall see if it exhibits any other unusual characteristics.
Beekeeping comes with an unlimited number of lessons....never boring, in my opinion.
 
#25 ·
Oxalic acid dribble is hard on bees. It works only on phoretic mites. You can only do it once during winter or you may not have enough bees in the spring. Need to first dissolve OA in alcohol then add it to sugar water making sure your measurement are perfect then apply the right amount between each frame. If it's cold you could kill your bees with wet sugar water.

I have oxalic acid vapor as a standby. You can use it at any temp. Any time of the year. It also only works on phoretic mites but you can use it once a week if you need to. It's quicker, don’t need to take hive apart. Just measure 2 grams per double and vaporize. The only down side is the vapor is bad for human and respirator should be used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpktnn9lZU4

I made a vaporizer out of copper pipe and no fittings, crushed the end and folded it over a few times. Took about 30 min make.

The best thing is I did not need to use it this year.
 
#33 ·
Need to first dissolve OA in alcohol then add it to sugar water making sure your measurement are perfect then apply the right amount between each frame.
FP…my oa crystals dissolved just fine in the sugar syrup…no alcohol needed. And I’d think getting the mixture right would be important no matter how you planned to apply it.

The only down side is the vapor is bad for human and respirator should be used.
This is surely one downside. Another is the need for extra hardware. And last but surely not least, if you have a couple of dozen (or more) beeyards making one trip to each is a lot simpler and less labor intensive than making three.

As in many things beekeeping…..there is no one size fits all.
I’m glad you like the fogging….for me the one time dribble looks good.
 
#32 ·
I was reading Randy's articles about Russians, sugar shakes and drone comb before this thread was posted. I guess that is one of the most difficult parts of beekeeping, deciding what to do. Is there any reason not to do both? Can you do a regular sugar shake or fog, check the mite count at the end of the year and then treat with one of the chemicals if over a threshold? Does it come down to the number of hives you have and how much time you can invest.

For that matter should you do a mite count before treating with any of the chemicals?
 
#35 ·
I didn't see that, in the previous paragraph he mentions not seeing a lot of bee mortality from multiple treatments. Maybe it's not as hard on bees as some make it out to be. It's an interesting thought for hives that are almost never broodless or broodless for short periods.

I really need to strike words like everyone, always and never from my vocabulary.
 
#38 ·
Guys , I would worry a little about using oxalic acid with a normal oil fogger
To be honest the idea of fogging with oxalic acid in general would make me a bit nervous.The very thought of sucking up a lungful or getting some blowbsck in my face....just doesn't appeal to the cautious side of me. If I need a respirator and sealed glasses....I'm likely to skip it.
 
#43 ·
Unless you have 100's of colonies to treat gallons are not nessessary in fact any solution you mix has to be used or dumped. It doesn't keep for long. As for how much I measure with a triple beam scale in grams so no one is going to give you a recipe like one tablespoon to whatever. To apply you need a syringe. 5CC will work fine. A cc and a ml are the same. You apply 5 cc's or ml per seam for total of 50ml.for a double deep. You just need to count out 10 shots of 5. I do not break the doubles apart. This causes to much disruption at the time I do this which is Nov in michigan.
 
#44 ·
Could treat your hives in less than half the time it would take if to use dribble method? And there is less prep time as well. Watch the video, can you do it quicker, remember he is going slow to make the video. I will let you decide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpktnn9lZU4
Take roof off. Take crown board off (if used). Dribble OA -not actually necessary to split boxes. Put crown board back on. Replace roof. Move to next colony.
 
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