oxalic acid dribble

[Dan. NY]

Good thread. I have a friend who is really interested in this method as well. He will attempt a treatment in a few weeks, weather permitting if his hive is still alive. He did treat with Formic acid though very late in the season, end of NOV think it was. Would a treatment of oxallic be worth it for him?? Remnants of the formic strip are still in the hive and will be pulled in a few weeks weather permitting. Not sure the oxcallic will do anything??

One thing I gathered from the link is that its easy to screw up. Beemandan... could "your friend" have hit the stream right on the mark and had everything dialed in just perfect for this one hive, resulting in a huge mite drop? And.. maybe the others he was not so on the mark??? Dont know this is possible or not but seems like maybe. Something to think about.

Dan in NY

[beemandan]

Beemandan... could "your friend" have hit the stream right on the mark and had everything dialed in just perfect for this one hive, resulting in a huge mite drop? And.. maybe the others he was not so on the mark???

I can’t think of anything that would have been different in the application to this hive. It was somewhere near the middle of the process. The same mix, the same applicator…I just can’t imagine anything done that much differently.
My current best guess is that this hive was untreated at the end of the season. It is in a yard where laggards are taken for nurturing. Sometimes, at normal mite treatment times a colony of bees will appear to be unusually weak and my friend will skip its mite treatment. Any treatments (including oxalic acid) are disruptive to the bees and a colony that is already in distress can be easily pushed over the brink by the miticide…in this case it would have been Apiguard.
So my best guess is that this hive was untreated and its wintertime mite load was dramatically higher than its neighbors.
After looking at the sheet yesterday, I…..we did a bit more of an inspection. The cluster is quite large and appears vigorous. Having said that, if it was this heavily parasitized its prospects of surviving the remainder of the winter aren’t good….in my opinion.

[Rye]

I have a friend..who has a friend who used the cyclone oxalic fogger twice last fall one week apart. Had a good bit of dead mites in a few hives. No mites dropping right now. Will be interesting to see how they look in the spring.

[jim lyon]

Dan, I think this is a phenomena that happens pretty regularly, I don't know why. My theory (in my situation) is that it is probably a queen that escaped our requeening process in the spring as we do some combining and occassionally end up with a second queen, also perhaps drone drift. In reviewing our testing results from last September I see universally low single digit mite numbers in 24 samples pulled in 4 yards and a single reading in the high teens. These readings are post thymol and pre oxalic. I have seen this for years I no longer find it concerning because it dosent appear to be worsening. I just chalk it up to the impossibility of uniformity in all things beekeeping.

[FlowerPlanter]

Oxalic acid dribble is hard on bees. It works only on phoretic mites. You can only do it once during winter or you may not have enough bees in the spring. Need to first dissolve OA in alcohol then add it to sugar water making sure your measurement are perfect then apply the right amount between each frame. If it's cold you could kill your bees with wet sugar water.

I have oxalic acid vapor as a standby. You can use it at any temp. Any time of the year. It also only works on phoretic mites but you can use it once a week if you need to. It's quicker, don’t need to take hive apart. Just measure 2 grams per double and vaporize. The only down side is the vapor is bad for human and respirator should be used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpktnn9lZU4

I made a vaporizer out of copper pipe and no fittings, crushed the end and folded it over a few times. Took about 30 min make.

The best thing is I did not need to use it this year.

[Maryland Beekeeper]

Could one run OA through fogger ? oil soluble ?

[beemandan]

Dan, I think this is a phenomena that happens pretty regularly

Yeah Jim, I wasn't too concerned about it but it was a curiosity. My friend made a note and marked the hive...so we shall see if it exhibits any other unusual characteristics.
Beekeeping comes with an unlimited number of lessons....never boring, in my opinion.

[beemandan]

Could one run OA through fogger ?

Yes

[Rube63]

What is a cyclone oxalic fogger please?

[Flyer Jim]

My friend has a friend that knows a commercial guy that reccomends treatments of 5 ml per seam no more then 50 ml total once a week for 3 weeks to cover one round of brood.

Why does everyone repeat that this is harmful?
Does anyone have a friend that does this?

I got a friend that does the same,3 times a week apart.
Everyone repeats the same old line cause they haven't tried it or didn't do it right.
There are those who think , if a little's good a lot is better, not so with OA

My friend dosen"t tell anyone about is treatment anymore, everone knows it wont work

[beemandan]

Why does everyone repeat that this is harmful?

Everyone repeats the same old line cause they haven't tried it or didn't do it right.

Well Mbeck and Flyer Jim…I popped over to Randy O’s website to collect a citation to prove you wrong….and lo and behold…….

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-...ral-miticides/

However, those who can accurately apply the proper dose can obtain good mite control with oxalic dribble either with a single dribble when the colony is broodless, or by three multiple treatments a week apart when the colony contains brood (Sammataro 2008)

[alblancher]

I was reading Randy's articles about Russians, sugar shakes and drone comb before this thread was posted. I guess that is one of the most difficult parts of beekeeping, deciding what to do. Is there any reason not to do both? Can you do a regular sugar shake or fog, check the mite count at the end of the year and then treat with one of the chemicals if over a threshold? Does it come down to the number of hives you have and how much time you can invest.

For that matter should you do a mite count before treating with any of the chemicals?

[beemandan]

Need to first dissolve OA in alcohol then add it to sugar water making sure your measurement are perfect then apply the right amount between each frame.

FP…my oa crystals dissolved just fine in the sugar syrup…no alcohol needed. And I’d think getting the mixture right would be important no matter how you planned to apply it.

The only down side is the vapor is bad for human and respirator should be used.

This is surely one downside. Another is the need for extra hardware. And last but surely not least, if you have a couple of dozen (or more) beeyards making one trip to each is a lot simpler and less labor intensive than making three.

As in many things beekeeping…..there is no one size fits all.
I’m glad you like the fogging….for me the one time dribble looks good.

[Flyer Jim]

[QUOTE=beemandan;883398]Well Mbeck and Flyer Jim…I popped over to Randy O’s website to collect a citation to prove you wrong….and lo and behold…….

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-...ral-miticides/

However, those who can accurately apply the proper dose can obtain good mite control with oxalic dribble either with a single dribble when the colony is broodless, or by three multiple treatments a week apart when the colony contains brood (Sammataro 2008)[/QUOTE


told ya

have spoken to Mr. O many times.....he has been coming to our bee meetings well before he was anybody ...

[Mbeck]

I didn't see that, in the previous paragraph he mentions not seeing a lot of bee mortality from multiple treatments. Maybe it's not as hard on bees as some make it out to be. It's an interesting thought for hives that are almost never broodless or broodless for short periods.

I really need to strike words like everyone, always and never from my vocabulary.

[beemandan]

I really need to strike words like everyone, always and never from my vocabulary.

Me too.....every time I use them, I always end up with my foot in my mouth.

[johno]

Guys , I would worry a little about using oxalic acid with a normal oil fogger as there could be a problem with the oxalic acid blocking the fogger nozzle. If this is not the case has anyone done so.
Johno

[beemandan]

Guys , I would worry a little about using oxalic acid with a normal oil fogger

To be honest the idea of fogging with oxalic acid in general would make me a bit nervous.The very thought of sucking up a lungful or getting some blowbsck in my face....just doesn't appeal to the cautious side of me. If I need a respirator and sealed glasses....I'm likely to skip it.

[Rolande]

To be honest the idea of fogging with oxalic acid in general would make me a bit nervous.The very thought of sucking up a lungful or getting some blowbsck in my face....just doesn't appeal

With you on that one. No doubt whatsoever that it's highly efficient at knocking down mites but it does demand some respect in preperation and use.

[danno]

I'd bet the acid would wreck the fogger after the 1st use.