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  1. #61
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    Mar 2011
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    Fort Worth, TX, USA
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    1,757

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Hit a marine aquarium forum if you think beekeepers are argumentative. Beeks are MUCH easier to get along with.

    Reefkeepers are spending upwards of $500 for a piece of equipment for a reef that he's going to put a $200 fish in that will die within a month, and tell you why it won't, and then after it does you never hear anything more. I break the rich kids rules. My fish live. But I stay out of their forums.
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  2. #62
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    Apr 2009
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    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    2,340

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Born that way.

  3. #63
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    Jan 2003
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    Manitoba Canada
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    5,787

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    I just read a post on another thread. He claimed this forum was bad for personal attacks instead of discussion. what a joke
    That is not what I find here at all. Most posters who contribute here are civil.

    I do find when particular posters present their views as facts, they take any contradiction as attacks.
    Barry and company does a very good job keeping the forum clean
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  4. #64
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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,245

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Most posters who contribute here are civil.
    I do find when particular posters present their views as facts, they take any contradiction as attacks.
    Barry and company does a very good job keeping the forum clean
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  5. #65
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    Jul 2012
    Location
    Kirksville, Missouri USA
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    95

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    There's a dangerous side to just words on a screen to communicate. You read something, you get mad, then you think the writer is the one who is mad. It's easy to read something and totally miss the intention of the writer because of our own assumptions and attitudes.

  6. #66
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielD View Post
    There's a dangerous side to just words on a screen to communicate. You read something, you get mad, then you think the writer is the one who is mad. It's easy to read something and totally miss the intention of the writer because of our own assumptions and attitudes.
    Absolutely, that's why they have these. And these And don't forget this one
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  7. #67
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    Jan 2003
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Very true Daniel
    the key to success and capturing opportunity is having an open mind!

    everyone has a bias thats just natural,
    listening to others biases is the hard part

    huggy cozy discussion is boring nothing gets accomplished. A good discussion will provide points to consider
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  8. #68
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    Jul 2012
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    Kirksville, Missouri USA
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    95

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Very true Daniel
    the key to success and capturing opportunity is having an open mind!

    everyone has a bias thats just natural,
    listening to others biases is the hard part
    But not so open as to be mislead.

    I am sure the smiley faces, etc. can be miss interpreted too, if someone tries hard enough.

  9. #69
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Very true Daniel
    the key to success and capturing opportunity is having an open mind!

    everyone has a bias thats just natural,
    True enough, that speaks to our life experiences. The only thing that I find unsettling is when people use their biases to stereotype what they assume others must be like. There are lots of really smart people with perspectives much different than mine. The truly open minded person tries to learn from others as much as possible. The trick is separating the learned advice from those who have barely scratched the surface in the beekeeping world. I have spent the past few days sitting in on some informative talks at the NHP convention from some folks who have a lifetime of experience. At events like this you listen and learn. On an internet forum (at least to the uninitiated) it can be difficult to discern what level of expertise, if any at all, a particular poster might have.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #70
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    Dec 2006
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    Amador County, Calif
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    3,161

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    the key to success and capturing opportunity is having an open mind!
    Very well said.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  11. #71
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    Dec 2006
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    Amador County, Calif
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    3,161

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    On an internet forum (at least to the uninitiated) it can be difficult to discern what level of expertise, if any at all, a particular poster might have.
    Hear you Jimmy, But one thing gets me more than any other.... " I've been doing this for forty years" all I can think of is that he shoulda quit 39 years ago.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  12. #72
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    Apr 2011
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    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
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    1,920

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    I think that sometimes it's easy for people to develop an image or perception of a poster and become close minded or dismissive of them. People may then be less likely to help or engage in constructive conversation with them. I hope all my smart comments and jokes hasn't put me in this category.

    Example,
    I'm working on a pollen sub recipe for my self and trying to teach myself effective use of it.
    Keith seems to sell a bunch and his product is praised and he seems to have spent a lot of resources learning about the pollen sub market and science behind it. If the topic comes up he give little nuggets of wisdom that some may think tear down the competition but offer no real insight. I was beginning to fall into this trap thinking who is this guy with his "secret recipe" think he is. I wish he'd shut up or offer some real advise. ( don't take it personally). I read every post he made, searched out post of his on Bee-l and learned a lot. Lots of people attacked him and became personally offended that he wouldn't hold thier hand. If I let myself fall into this trap I wouldn't have learned or been open to all his contributions. He has given a lot of useful info about many things not related to sub. The info he provides about sub is useful and of course he has a right to share as he see fit.
    Sorry I had to use you as a example.... Hope your not offended!

  13. #73
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    Hear you Jimmy, But one thing gets me more than any other.... " I've been doing this for forty years" all I can think of is that he shoulda quit 39 years ago.
    Hey that's me!!!! Quit? And miss all this? Not a chance.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  14. #74
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    Feb 2007
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    Lk Stevens, WA
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    150

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    I try to keep the perspective that " there are 100 ways to keep bees and 99 of them will work" I do like to learn why a person does something they way they do, and if I think it may work with how I like to keep my bees I will test it out to see if I want to adopt it into MY way of doing things. Now lets argue!

  15. #75
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    I agree with what you said Mbeck. A lot of people just want handouts. The information on this site is invaluable already, expecting someone who makes a living on bees to just hand out information they've worked hard to discover is a little arrogant. I think part of it, is Keith and others hand out tidbits to make you do some research for yourself, to help you learn and not just do what someone else is telling you w/o comprehending the why. I spend a couple hours each day researching bees and still have lots to learn, part of the journey, and yes, you must keep an open mind. I think most of the arguing is based on people choosing their 'ideals' and blindly sticking to it and not continuing educating themselves on the science behind the why's and hows of everything else or not being able to look at the big picture anymore because they're 'organic' now etc...

  16. #76
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    May 2011
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    San Francisco, CA
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    2,338

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    yes, you must keep an open mind. I think most of the arguing is based on people choosing their 'ideals' and blindly sticking to it and not continuing educating themselves on the science behind the why's and hows
    Well said. I find this particularly true with "senior" beekeepers who are stuck in their ways when they first started 20 years ago.
    President, San Francisco Beekeepers Association
    www.habitatforhoneybees.org

  17. #77
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    Manitoba Canada
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    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Hey that's me!!!! Quit? And miss all this? Not a chance.
    ha ha ha hahha ha
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #78

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie B View Post
    I find this particularly true with "senior" beekeepers
    I'll tell ya....there are a load of newcomers that'll argue til' their blue. I think anyone...experienced or not, can get their ego tied to their opinion and absolutely refuse to budge. You reach that point and your mind is closed and I don't believe it has anything to do with experience.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  19. #79
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    Apr 2009
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    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    2,340

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Hey that's me!!!! Quit? And miss all this? Not a chance.
    And not have this opportunity "to have a box in the yard that I throw money into" Used to say that about my boat but, now that I have bee's who has time to have a hole in the water to throw money into.

  20. #80
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,038

    Default Re: Why do beekeepers argue so much?

    I used to have a boat in high school. Girls like boats ... it give them a chance to wear that new bikini. Best money I ever spent was on that boat. Of course things were different back then.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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