Combining two 3 lb packages?

[bosco500]

What would happen if you combined two 3 lb packages into one hive? Would that be too many bees and cause them to swarm? What if you used two deeps?

I'm not planning on doing this, just curious if there would be an advantage over one package.

[Mr.Beeman]

No advantage as far as I know. The queen is the key to populate quickly.

[jpelley]

just a thought, Each package would be loyal too the queen that that came with them, so you'd have to remove one queen and let them get use to the other one, just like combine. Then the pro would be faster comb building, but at the cost of trying to feed so many there wouldnt be much honey production til things even out. I don't think theyd swarm seeing some swarms come out of a big hive with more bees then just two packages worth. Just my thought about it.

[bluegrass]

Packages don't have to come with a queen so a person could buy two 3 lb pcks one with a queen and one without and combine them if they wanted. It is cheaper to buy a package without a queen than one with. Some people buy queenless packages to populate mating nucs.

That being said I don't think there would be any benefit to combining two packs. The majority of the bees in a package are all in the nurse bee phase and you would be over populating the new hive with bees that have no job because of the lack of brood.

Until 1986 most packages produced in the USA were sold into Canada, they only bought 2 lb packages at that time. Personally I think a 2 lb package is all that is needed to successfully start a colony anywhere in the USA. I would only sell 2 lbs packs if I thought I could sell them, but most people want 3 lbs now days.

[deknow]

The queen is the key to populate quickly.

This is not true. Unless there is a specific issue with a queen, the limiting factor (assuming food is available) is generally the number of young bees that can care for the brood.

deknow

[Mr.Beeman]

I should have been more concise with my reply. I meant he would populate quicker with two queens instead of just the one.

[mtndewluvr]

Perhaps slightly off topic, but assuming all things equal, which would likely create a strong colony the fastest...combining the two packages, as suggested above, or installing one nuc?

[Roland]

Actually there is some merit in combining 2-3lb packages in a cold climate. When heat is the limiting factor, the queen can lay more than twice what a 3 lb package queen could. The key would be to split with the extra queen just before they hit the population plateau. it is more labor, but potentially advantageous.

Crazy Roland

[bosco500]

Actually there is some merit in combining 2-3lb packages in a cold climate. When heat is the limiting factor, the queen can lay more than twice what a 3 lb package queen could. The key would be to split with the extra queen just before they hit the population plateau. it is more labor, but potentially advantageous.

Crazy Roland

I may try this and see how it turns out. Will be a fun project

[MattDavey]

During the spring buildup and main flow, having a larger population is an advantage. Once nectar and pollen resources decrease the extra population is a disadvantage.

Also, they do things a lot quicker with a higher population, so you need to keep an eye on them and make sure they have enough space.

Matthew Davey

[Michael Bush]

If the queen in one package was dead, I would combine them. If not, I would use them. The queen is too expensive to waste and 3 pounds is good enough to get a colony started well. More bees will speed things along a little, but not as much as you might think.

[FlowerPlanter]

http://www.mdasplitter.com/
Part of his out breeding mites he make splits with queen cells and let the new queens build up the population, then recombines them to take advantage of a flow.

To me two hives is better than one.

[Roland]

Mr. Bush, I agree, but let's look at some other factors. IF you could buy a 6 lb package on April 15th(when the dandelions bloom), for 20 dollars less than 2-3lb packages, and the buy a better fecundated queen on June first for 20 dollars, would you come out ahead? I believe you would. June Queens are better than April Queens, and 6 lbs of bees can support more brood than 2 - 3lb hives of bees.

Crazy Roland

[Mustang]

Bee suppliers use to sell 5 pound packages I bought one in the early 90's from York bee company when it came it was 2 packages 1 three pound with queen and a queenless 2 pound which I dumped into one hive body which resulted in a full deep of bees more bees equals more comb being built faster so this has already been done.

[Michael Bush]

>Mr. Bush, I agree, but let's look at some other factors. IF you could buy a 6 lb package on April 15th(when the dandelions bloom), for 20 dollars less than 2-3lb packages, and the buy a better fecundated queen on June first for 20 dollars, would you come out ahead?

Probably.

> I believe you would. June Queens are better than April Queens, and 6 lbs of bees can support more brood than 2 - 3lb hives of bees.

Especially in April when nights are still cold. But I don't know of anyone offering such a system.

[Ian]

6 lbs of bees sounds like you will have to do some preparations to advert swarming, and cut them down into two units at the minimum

if you make up two 3 lbs hives, all that swarm work would be satisfied

[bluegrass]

>Mr. Bush, I agree, but let's look at some other factors. IF you could buy a 6 lb package on April 15th(when the dandelions bloom), for 20 dollars less than 2-3lb packages, and the buy a better fecundated queen on June first for 20 dollars, would you come out ahead?

Probably.

> I believe you would. June Queens are better than April Queens, and 6 lbs of bees can support more brood than 2 - 3lb hives of bees.

Especially in April when nights are still cold. But I don't know of anyone offering such a system.

If you want to try it Mike will have packages in VT by May 1st. They can come with or without queens. I will trade you packages for an equal value in nucs. I didn't do any nucs this year and have a few customers who want some.

[Roland]

Ian - no worries, we are intensive and can handle overpopulation/swarming in our normal operations.

I still like the idea of half the queens being from a latter batch, seeing as we see alot of troubles one and a half brood cycles into a package.

Crazy Roland

[Cessna180]

Hello,
That's a great thread. For one thing I sell 4# packages here in Washington. The colony builds up fast for our short season. Works great. I import 5# packages in Alaska. Works even better. People are very happy with them.
Many bee keepers in Alaska double queen hives for more bees faster an the result is more honey.
Feed like crazy an the wax will build up faster with more bees.
The queen will only lay what the nurse bees can keep warm. This is for the cooler climates in the spring.
Monitor them an give them the room they need. Don't crowd them or they will swarm.
Good luck.