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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,519

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    try to keep a low profile jim

    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,952

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I dont see any of that right now.
    Conventions are full, ideas are being shared, this discussion board is active.

    What is this "old" method of beekeeping people keep referring to

    You keep bees in a hive that was designed well over 100 years ago. made of the same material that it was made of 100 years ago. That alone is just a start.
    In comparison how many things that where in use 100 years ago will you still find in use today? Made from the same materials and used for the same purpose? The hive box has not been altered even enough to match today's dimensions in lumber.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,419

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    My house is 125 years old. Still doing what it was designed to do.
    Regards, Barry

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,952

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    And it has been upgraded how many times?
    So you have no electricity. running water. indoor bathrooms. are still lighting the house with oil lamps. No wall to wall carpeting. No washer no dryer. no kitchen sink. no refrigerator, you still have to jump out of bed int eh morning and light a wood stove and put warm rocks at the foot of your bed to keep from freezing at night? is that what you are saying?

    No I think you house is doing a lot better job than it did when it was built.

    want to make an attempt at listing advancements in beekeeping.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-05-2013 at 09:41 AM. Reason: language
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,066

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    .... and light a wood stove ...
    I would bet that 125 years ago Barry's house in Illinois was heated with coal, not wood.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Portland, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    241

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    And the fact that it's 125 years old and still going no mater how many upgrades still testifies to quality, quality that last! Besides all of the upgrades mentioned were NOT neccesary, only wanted.

    BTW, water is still made the same as it was in the beginning, do you refuse to drink it? Sure some treatments have been made to make it safer, or is it?
    Beeman
    All things may be lawful; but not all things are advantagous.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,084

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    >Well, Michael, this is a first. Are you saying that you still have hives that succumb to mites?

    No I am not.

    > I thought that mite were no longer a problem for you.

    They are not. But I always examine any losses looking for causes and before I regressed I lost ALL of them to mites several times.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,419

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    No I think you house is doing a lot better job than it did when it was built.

    want to make an attempt at listing advancements in beekeeping.
    It's still doing the same job. Still keeps one protected from the elements. Still has heat, water, bathroom, as it did 125 years ago. Old stuff gets replaced as it wears out, just like with hives.
    Regards, Barry

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,952

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    wrong thread
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Springfield, MO, USA
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Wow, this thread has gone completely off topic – but I guess that is natural.

    Thanks for all the replies. I’ve taken my share of personal attacks here and have gotten several good replies as well. In the end, I don’t think that I managed to get my intention across clearly in the OP because only a few of these replies are addressing the point I thought I was trying to make. My fault. Perhaps I shall try again later.

    I appreciate the many folks here who are willing to share their experiences and their wisdom. And I am especially appreciative of those who can have a discussion, even when we don’t agree, without personal attacks.
    Jeffrey Maddox
    www.MaddoxBees.com

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,906

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    You keep bees in a hive that was designed well over 100 years ago. made of the same material that it was made of 100 years ago. That alone is just a start.
    In comparison how many things that where in use 100 years ago will you still find in use today? Made from the same materials and used for the same purpose? The hive box has not been altered even enough to match today's dimensions in lumber.
    Im not following your logic here, alot of how things are done, is basically just because thats how things were initially started.
    Your suggesting changing the dimensions of the equipment will improve our , bee health? or, improve, . . . ?

    I know it would totally wipe the slate of what we are doing now, new boxes, new frames, new extracting equipment, . . .
    none of that has anything to do with hive health

    Looking at my key board right now, why do they have the keys arranged as they do? Goes back to the typewriter days. To change things over to a more practical key board , would require too much waste in resources to switch over.
    And then there is the argument that this keyboard arrangement is the most efficient way to type.

    Daniel, I hope I dont come across the wrong way, you and I are alot alike in our thinking, but we do differ hugely in one aspect of our beliefs.
    I believe agriculture is working and you believe agriculture is broken.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,906

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Jeffery, as far as I can see your thread is completely on topic.
    From what I could gather from your initial post, this is pretty much the discussion you wanted,.?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  13. #53

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maddox65804 View Post
    I think I was hoping for something that would help determine the differnece between when mites were the major contributing factor or when it was something else. It is a lofty hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    In your measuring to see how each hive performs…so that you can do solid comparisons…what method of varroa testing do you use? And when those hives fail and your refer to your notes…how were their mite loads?
    Are you having some difficulty with this Jeffery?
    Does it seem like a personal attack when someone points out that you already ought to have the answer to your initial questions right in your own hands?
    I think I asked some pretty fundamental questions….and you’ve failed to answer.
    I believe that it is Dean (deknow) who likes the term ‘straw man question’…..but in this instance I think this is what we’ve seen.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,519

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    it was a good initial question, strawman or not.

    these threads do sometimes twist and turn, but in the end it's really good discussion. i am getting a lot of education and enjoyment from all this.

    i think part of the difficulty is the forum format, it's not perfect.

    we are trying to have a discussion not unlike we would have at a gathering, but the dynamics change with the written word.

    not having the luxury of facial expressions and other body language causes the reader to assume the 'tone' of the poster.

    i think i have been misunderstood in that regard once or twice.

    on the other hand, maybe this way is safer, and avoids our discussions ending up in a knock down drag out.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,906

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    dig dig dig, squarepeg out for the count LOL
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Creston bc canada
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I think you are in the right neighborhood with this Jim. I'm thinking that he wasn't really wanting ideas...he wanted to express his opinion. .
    No , I think he was just asking if anyone had some hard data on the death of hives due to mites ,I think it's impossible to say.

    If you have some facts danno , share with us.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Springfield, MO, USA
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    JWBEE is closer than most (Thanks JW). I was looking for hard data and SPECIFIC diagnostic tools, not assumptions even though they are well grounded assumptions.

    I didn't start this thread to solve my own problems. There seems to be the impression that I am having problems with mites in MY hives. I'm not. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. So insinuating that I should know the answers or questioning my methodologies is not the point.

    I was trying to encourage others to look not just at the mites, but at the other factors as well - and it seemed I failed for the most part. Mites are bad, and as Jim Lyon stated early in this discussion, they seriously changed beekeeping. However, they are not the the only cause of hive problems. It seems like many BKs get hung up on mites and don't look past the mites for causes of problems in their hives.
    Jeffrey Maddox
    www.MaddoxBees.com

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Columbia, Maryland. U.S.A.
    Posts
    252

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    has anyone tried an entrance w/ broom ceiling/screen bottom to brush mites off/catch ?
    Cheers,
    Drew

  19. #59

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maddox65804 View Post
    I think I was hoping for something that would help determine the differnece between when mites were the major contributing factor or when it was something else. It is a lofty hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maddox65804 View Post
    I was looking for hard data and SPECIFIC diagnostic tools, not assumptions even though they are well grounded assumptions.
    It seems to me that you aren’t sure exactly what you want. To answer the first quote…testing will let you know if ‘mites were a major contributing factor’.
    There isn’t any such ‘SPECIFIC diagnostic tool’…and I’m reasonably sure you already knew that….i.e. strawman question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maddox65804 View Post
    There seems to be the impression that I am having problems with mites in MY hives. I'm not.
    What is evident is that you don’t really know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maddox65804 View Post
    It seems like many BKs get hung up on mites and don't look past the mites for causes of problems in their hives.
    There are also those who are in a state of denial….that unless there is an absolutely SPECIFIC indication that their hives failed from varroa….then it must have been something else.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Springfield, MO, USA
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

    Wow. Don't know what has made "BEEMANDAN" so offensive towards me. Is he always like this?
    Jeffrey Maddox
    www.MaddoxBees.com

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