How do you KNOW that mites caused the hive to crash?

[squarepeg]

try to keep a low profile jim

[Daniel Y]

I dont see any of that right now.
Conventions are full, ideas are being shared, this discussion board is active.

What is this "old" method of beekeeping people keep referring to

You keep bees in a hive that was designed well over 100 years ago. made of the same material that it was made of 100 years ago. That alone is just a start.
In comparison how many things that where in use 100 years ago will you still find in use today? Made from the same materials and used for the same purpose? The hive box has not been altered even enough to match today's dimensions in lumber.

[Barry]

My house is 125 years old. Still doing what it was designed to do.

[Daniel Y]

And it has been upgraded how many times?
So you have no electricity. running water. indoor bathrooms. are still lighting the house with oil lamps. No wall to wall carpeting. No washer no dryer. no kitchen sink. no refrigerator, you still have to jump out of bed int eh morning and light a wood stove and put warm rocks at the foot of your bed to keep from freezing at night? is that what you are saying?

No I think you house is doing a lot better job than it did when it was built.

want to make an attempt at listing advancements in beekeeping.

[Rader Sidetrack]

.... and light a wood stove ...

I would bet that 125 years ago Barry's house in Illinois was heated with coal, not wood.

[beeman2009]

And the fact that it's 125 years old and still going no mater how many upgrades still testifies to quality, quality that last! Besides all of the upgrades mentioned were NOT neccesary, only wanted.

BTW, water is still made the same as it was in the beginning, do you refuse to drink it? Sure some treatments have been made to make it safer, or is it?

[Michael Bush]

>Well, Michael, this is a first. Are you saying that you still have hives that succumb to mites?

No I am not.

> I thought that mite were no longer a problem for you.

They are not. But I always examine any losses looking for causes and before I regressed I lost ALL of them to mites several times.

[Barry]

No I think you house is doing a lot better job than it did when it was built.

want to make an attempt at listing advancements in beekeeping.

It's still doing the same job. Still keeps one protected from the elements. Still has heat, water, bathroom, as it did 125 years ago. Old stuff gets replaced as it wears out, just like with hives.

[Daniel Y]

wrong thread

[Maddox65804]

Wow, this thread has gone completely off topic – but I guess that is natural.

Thanks for all the replies. I’ve taken my share of personal attacks here and have gotten several good replies as well. In the end, I don’t think that I managed to get my intention across clearly in the OP because only a few of these replies are addressing the point I thought I was trying to make. My fault. Perhaps I shall try again later.

I appreciate the many folks here who are willing to share their experiences and their wisdom. And I am especially appreciative of those who can have a discussion, even when we don’t agree, without personal attacks.

[Ian]

You keep bees in a hive that was designed well over 100 years ago. made of the same material that it was made of 100 years ago. That alone is just a start.
In comparison how many things that where in use 100 years ago will you still find in use today? Made from the same materials and used for the same purpose? The hive box has not been altered even enough to match today's dimensions in lumber.

Im not following your logic here, alot of how things are done, is basically just because thats how things were initially started.
Your suggesting changing the dimensions of the equipment will improve our , bee health? or, improve, . . . ?

I know it would totally wipe the slate of what we are doing now, new boxes, new frames, new extracting equipment, . . .
none of that has anything to do with hive health

Looking at my key board right now, why do they have the keys arranged as they do? Goes back to the typewriter days. To change things over to a more practical key board , would require too much waste in resources to switch over.
And then there is the argument that this keyboard arrangement is the most efficient way to type.

Daniel, I hope I dont come across the wrong way, you and I are alot alike in our thinking, but we do differ hugely in one aspect of our beliefs.
I believe agriculture is working and you believe agriculture is broken.

[Ian]

Jeffery, as far as I can see your thread is completely on topic.
From what I could gather from your initial post, this is pretty much the discussion you wanted,.?

[beemandan]

I think I was hoping for something that would help determine the differnece between when mites were the major contributing factor or when it was something else. It is a lofty hope.

In your measuring to see how each hive performs…so that you can do solid comparisons…what method of varroa testing do you use? And when those hives fail and your refer to your notes…how were their mite loads?

Are you having some difficulty with this Jeffery?
Does it seem like a personal attack when someone points out that you already ought to have the answer to your initial questions right in your own hands?
I think I asked some pretty fundamental questions….and you’ve failed to answer.
I believe that it is Dean (deknow) who likes the term ‘straw man question’…..but in this instance I think this is what we’ve seen.

[squarepeg]

it was a good initial question, strawman or not.

these threads do sometimes twist and turn, but in the end it's really good discussion. i am getting a lot of education and enjoyment from all this.

i think part of the difficulty is the forum format, it's not perfect.

we are trying to have a discussion not unlike we would have at a gathering, but the dynamics change with the written word.

not having the luxury of facial expressions and other body language causes the reader to assume the 'tone' of the poster.

i think i have been misunderstood in that regard once or twice.

on the other hand, maybe this way is safer, and avoids our discussions ending up in a knock down drag out.

[Ian]

dig dig dig, squarepeg out for the count LOL

[jwbee]

I think you are in the right neighborhood with this Jim. I'm thinking that he wasn't really wanting ideas...he wanted to express his opinion. .

No , I think he was just asking if anyone had some hard data on the death of hives due to mites ,I think it's impossible to say.

If you have some facts danno , share with us.

[Maddox65804]

JWBEE is closer than most (Thanks JW). I was looking for hard data and SPECIFIC diagnostic tools, not assumptions even though they are well grounded assumptions.

I didn't start this thread to solve my own problems. There seems to be the impression that I am having problems with mites in MY hives. I'm not. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear. So insinuating that I should know the answers or questioning my methodologies is not the point.

I was trying to encourage others to look not just at the mites, but at the other factors as well - and it seemed I failed for the most part. Mites are bad, and as Jim Lyon stated early in this discussion, they seriously changed beekeeping. However, they are not the the only cause of hive problems. It seems like many BKs get hung up on mites and don't look past the mites for causes of problems in their hives.

[Maryland Beekeeper]

has anyone tried an entrance w/ broom ceiling/screen bottom to brush mites off/catch ?
Cheers,
Drew

[beemandan]

I think I was hoping for something that would help determine the differnece between when mites were the major contributing factor or when it was something else. It is a lofty hope.

I was looking for hard data and SPECIFIC diagnostic tools, not assumptions even though they are well grounded assumptions.

It seems to me that you aren’t sure exactly what you want. To answer the first quote…testing will let you know if ‘mites were a major contributing factor’.
There isn’t any such ‘SPECIFIC diagnostic tool’…and I’m reasonably sure you already knew that….i.e. strawman question.

There seems to be the impression that I am having problems with mites in MY hives. I'm not.

What is evident is that you don’t really know.

It seems like many BKs get hung up on mites and don't look past the mites for causes of problems in their hives.

There are also those who are in a state of denial….that unless there is an absolutely SPECIFIC indication that their hives failed from varroa….then it must have been something else.

[Maddox65804]

Wow. Don't know what has made "BEEMANDAN" so offensive towards me. Is he always like this?