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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,196

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Pedro was not "run off the forum." There were forum rules then as there are now. The fact is, some people don't like venues where civil discourse takes place, where they are questioned and debated. I lost interest in FGMO when the prescribed method kept changing and eventually required thymol. So what's actually doing the job, FGMO or thymol? Yes, he requested that his posts be removed. I obliged, but wouldn't do so again as the record can now be made up if one wishes.

    FGMO is a treatment, as is thymol. It's disingenuous for anyone to claim treatment free if they use either of these IMO.
    Regards, Barry

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
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    1,042

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    you sure are against fogging?!
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 15 hives==== T{OAV}

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
    Posts
    1,340

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Pedro was not "run off the forum." .
    When a group of people berate someone to the point that person leaves a discussion I call that being ďrun offĒ has nothing to do with rules. I did not mean to imply he was run off by the moderator. Sorry ya took it that way. Cup of tea maybe???
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    The fact is, some people don't like venues where civil discourse takes place, where they are questioned and debated. .
    The civility of the discourse bordered on personal attacks if not outright insults I donít blame him for leaving.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Yes, he requested that his posts be removed. I obliged, but wouldn't do so again as the record can now be made up if one wishes. .
    Is someone making stuff up?? I donít think I have. If so fill me in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    FGMO is a treatment, as is thymol. It's disingenuous for anyone to claim treatment free if they use either of these IMO.
    I also donít think anyone using it has indicated it was treatment free. I think fat beeman used the term organic but not treatment free. A cup of tea maybe???
    Iím really not that serious

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Thanks, I've already had my coffee and I'm quite calm, thank you.

    I'm not implying that you implied it was me that 'ran him off.' I didn't. Cup of tea maybe?

    I can't fill you in on what took place because it's all been deleted, hence my point 'I'd never do that again.'

    Don has claimed TF. Maybe he has changed recently. I shared what I personally believe. I know some think it's not a treatment and are fine with the TF label/claim. I say great, to each their own.
    Regards, Barry

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Columbia, Maryland. U.S.A.
    Posts
    249

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    I have yet to read anyone as against fogging, just desirous of evidence, how no one has fogged a jar of mites on u-tube w/ un-fogged one sitting next to it is what perplexes me or even done as FATBMAN describes, I will endeavor to do so which obviously leads to the necessity to collect mites, ideas ?, I suppose once the cutout calls start coming there will be mites, getting unmolested sample separate from B's would be nice though, ideas there ? .....lost my train of thought...

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    615

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    One should be able to do a test.

    Do a mite count with alcohol wash or icing sugar. Pick a hive with a >3% mite count.

    Remove and clean sticky board in a screened bottom and recoat with oil. Do a mite count on sticky board after a couple of days.

    Remove and clean and coat sticky board. Fog and do a mite count on sticky board after a couple of days.

    Again do an alcohol wash or icing sugar test.

    ???? Min of two days between tests and a max of a week.

    Plan to give it a try but will be 3-4 months till warm enough
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    4,937

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Its difficult to believe that someone could suggest "mineral oil" is "organic", with a straight face. Mineral oil is distilled from petroleum, AKA crude oil, often as a byproduct of gasoline and diesel production.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil

    Simply because it may be referred to as "food grade" does not change the fact that mineral oil is manufactured from crude oil. Mineral oil may be useful to beekeepers, but it does not qualify for a reasonable definition of "organic."
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,043

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    The real issue in evaluating any varroa treatment isn't if the treatment kills some mites or causes a certain mite drop but rather if long term control can be achieved when compared with similar control hives where fogging is the only variable. Many basic hive manipulations, most notably smoking, will cause mites to fall off bees to some extent.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
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    1,340

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Simply because it may be referred to as "food grade" does not change the fact that mineral oil is manufactured from crude oil. Mineral oil may be useful to beekeepers, but it does not qualify for a reasonable definition of "organic."
    I know I agree
    Iím really not that serious

  10. #110

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    While much of this thread has focused on fgmo, there is evidence that fogging with oxalic acid is efficacious. What also makes this study interesting is that the author describes how he determined the levels of oxalic acid that would kill mites. Some aspiring beekeeper could replicate that process for mineral oil to see at what level it killed mitesÖ.and then bees. http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...entomologydiss
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
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    1,340

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgolden View Post
    One should be able to do a test. Do a mite count with alcohol wash or icing sugar. Pick a hive with a >3% mite count.
    I think he wants a bunch of live mites in a jar and then fogg those mides and see if they die. Anyway that's how I under stood the post
    Iím really not that serious

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
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    1,340

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryland Beekeeper View Post
    , I will endeavor to do so which obviously leads to the necessity to collect mites, ideas .
    Well if ya collect bees in a jar as if going to do an alcohal wash but instead fog the jar and see if any mites fall of the bees and see if it kills any bees.
    Iím really not that serious

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,277

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    I've been here long enough to recall the FGMO fourm. They were some of the most contentious posts that I've ever witnessed. Dr. Pedro did his research in Virginia Beach and Suffolk, VA, and worked with one of our most experienced local beekeepers. He also came to our club (2002?) and gave a talk on FGMO. I did buy the fogger and used it for two seasons, but didn't buy into the Thymol soaked cords. In my case, I'm really not sure if it provided any benefit, but I suspect that it must be as beneficial as powdered sugar dusting. If you're going to use the fogger with pure mineral oil for fogging without cords, then its extremely easy and fast. Some other local beekeepers are still using FGMO and claim success against varroa, but I don't believe that they have any data to back up such claims. For myself, I have no plans to fire up the fogger again. Oh, there have been reports of fire balls resulting from FGMO fogging, so this maybe something to consider.

    I will say that Dr. Pedro was a VERY nice person and really went out of his way to help beekeepers, and for that I have great respect for him. However, I don't believe that he was "cut out" to handle the structure of internet forums. The debates and attacks kind of reminded me of the animal that walked upon the fire ant nest...very painful to witness. To the credit of beesource, and to the best of my knowledge, Dr. Pedro did not get "run off" - he simply could not continue the discussions.

  14. #114
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,059

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Astro.... I'd pay for shipping of that fogger.

    I would have liked to meet Dr. Pedro, seems like a knowledgeable dude.

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
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    1,042

    Embarrassed Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK View Post
    So who has fogged there bees and it worked?
    I seen the fat bee guy youtube using mineral oil does this work?
    If you look the first post did not say any thing about treatment free.
    So when your fighting about it being treatment free it realy don't have anything to do with the original post.
    It was about fogging we all know what treatment free means.
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 15 hives==== T{OAV}

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    havana fl
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK View Post
    It was about fogging we all know what treatment free means.
    No we don't. Just ask 10 beekeepers or better yet just ask 2. :-)
    Iím really not that serious

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
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    1,340

    Cool Re: Fogging your bees?

    [
    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    I've been here long enough to recall the FGMO fourm. They were some of the most contentious posts that I've ever witnessed. I did buy the fogger and used it for two seasons, I'm really not sure if it provided any benefit. .
    Well after 2 years if ya had healthy bees in productive hives that made a bunch of honey and no signs of mite damage, it just mite have been some benefit. Hereís your sign ( thatís a joke)

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    The debates and attacks kind of reminded me of the animal that walked upon the fire ant nest...very painful to witness. .
    Yes it was and if the animal was smart he would ďrun offĒ
    Iím really not that serious

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    For Radarsidetrack,
    I guess compost is about as organic as crude oil, Think about organic chemistry all about carbon and hydrogen.
    Johno

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    4,937

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    For Radarsidetrack, I guess compost is about as organic as crude oil, Think about organic chemistry all about carbon and hydrogen.
    OK, I was wrong. Apparently there is at least one person that believes mineral oil derived from crude oil is organic. Does your car run on organic gasoline as well?

    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,277

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    [ Well after 2 years if ya had healthy bees in productive hives that made a bunch of honey and no signs of mite damage, it just mite have been some benefit.
    I never even suggested those claims. In fact, during that time frame my bees were struggling and the FGMO did not produce a noticeable improvement. If it had I probably would have stuck with it, but again, I was using only pure mineral oil and only fogging.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    [Yes it was and if the animal was smart he would “run off”
    These issues are almost never one-sided and interactions between humans are always far more complex. Perhaps I should not have used such a simplistic comparison. I never intended to suggest that this was wholly a one-sided fight. My point was that not everyone is well-suited for internet forums.

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