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Fogging your bees?

58K views 141 replies 31 participants last post by  Stephenpbird 
#1 ·
So who has fogged there bees and it worked?
I seen the fat bee guy youtube using mineral oil does this work?
 
#104 ·
Thanks, I've already had my coffee and I'm quite calm, thank you.

I'm not implying that you implied it was me that 'ran him off.' I didn't. Cup of tea maybe? :)

I can't fill you in on what took place because it's all been deleted, hence my point 'I'd never do that again.'

Don has claimed TF. Maybe he has changed recently. I shared what I personally believe. I know some think it's not a treatment and are fine with the TF label/claim. I say great, to each their own.
 
#105 ·
I have yet to read anyone as against fogging, just desirous of evidence, how no one has fogged a jar of mites on u-tube w/ un-fogged one sitting next to it is what perplexes me or even done as FATBMAN describes, I will endeavor to do so which obviously leads to the necessity to collect mites, ideas ?, I suppose once the cutout calls start coming there will be mites, getting unmolested sample separate from B's would be nice though, ideas there ? .....lost my train of thought...
 
#106 ·
One should be able to do a test.

Do a mite count with alcohol wash or icing sugar. Pick a hive with a >3% mite count.

Remove and clean sticky board in a screened bottom and recoat with oil. Do a mite count on sticky board after a couple of days.

Remove and clean and coat sticky board. Fog and do a mite count on sticky board after a couple of days.

Again do an alcohol wash or icing sugar test.

???? Min of two days between tests and a max of a week.

Plan to give it a try but will be 3-4 months till warm enough
 
#107 ·
Its difficult to believe that someone could suggest "mineral oil" is "organic", with a straight face. :eek: Mineral oil is distilled from petroleum, AKA crude oil, often as a byproduct of gasoline and diesel production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil

Simply because it may be referred to as "food grade" does not change the fact that mineral oil is manufactured from crude oil. Mineral oil may be useful to beekeepers, but it does not qualify for a reasonable definition of "organic."
 
#108 ·
The real issue in evaluating any varroa treatment isn't if the treatment kills some mites or causes a certain mite drop but rather if long term control can be achieved when compared with similar control hives where fogging is the only variable. Many basic hive manipulations, most notably smoking, will cause mites to fall off bees to some extent.
 
#110 ·
While much of this thread has focused on fgmo, there is evidence that fogging with oxalic acid is efficacious. What also makes this study interesting is that the author describes how he determined the levels of oxalic acid that would kill mites. Some aspiring beekeeper could replicate that process for mineral oil to see at what level it killed mites….and then bees. http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=entomologydiss
 
#113 ·
I've been here long enough to recall the FGMO fourm. They were some of the most contentious posts that I've ever witnessed. Dr. Pedro did his research in Virginia Beach and Suffolk, VA, and worked with one of our most experienced local beekeepers. He also came to our club (2002?) and gave a talk on FGMO. I did buy the fogger and used it for two seasons, but didn't buy into the Thymol soaked cords. In my case, I'm really not sure if it provided any benefit, but I suspect that it must be as beneficial as powdered sugar dusting. If you're going to use the fogger with pure mineral oil for fogging without cords, then its extremely easy and fast. Some other local beekeepers are still using FGMO and claim success against varroa, but I don't believe that they have any data to back up such claims. For myself, I have no plans to fire up the fogger again. Oh, there have been reports of fire balls resulting from FGMO fogging, so this maybe something to consider.

I will say that Dr. Pedro was a VERY nice person and really went out of his way to help beekeepers, and for that I have great respect for him. However, I don't believe that he was "cut out" to handle the structure of internet forums. The debates and attacks kind of reminded me of the animal that walked upon the fire ant nest...very painful to witness. To the credit of beesource, and to the best of my knowledge, Dr. Pedro did not get "run off" - he simply could not continue the discussions.
 
#117 ·
[
I've been here long enough to recall the FGMO fourm. They were some of the most contentious posts that I've ever witnessed. I did buy the fogger and used it for two seasons, I'm really not sure if it provided any benefit. .
Well after 2 years if ya had healthy bees in productive hives that made a bunch of honey and no signs of mite damage, it just mite have been some benefit. Here’s your sign ( that’s a joke)

The debates and attacks kind of reminded me of the animal that walked upon the fire ant nest...very painful to witness. .
Yes it was and if the animal was smart he would “run off”
 
#115 ·
If you look the first post did not say any thing about treatment free.
So when your fighting about it being treatment free it realy don't have anything to do with the original post.
It was about fogging we all know what treatment free means. :eek:
 
#121 ·
Once again to radar sidetrack Crude oil is organic wether you like it or not. The mineral oil used in fogging is part of the crude oil it is a parrafin straight chain hydrocarbon which is separated from the crude oil by distilation, so was always in the crude oil. Gasoline on the other hand,with the exeption of low octane straight chain gasolines, is processed throughplatinum reactors and is changed from parrafinic to aromatic molecules therefore the gasoline in my car is not strictly organic but is derived from an organic substance.
Johno
 
#124 ·
johno, you seem to be trying to make a point that crude oil is organic. While an Organic Chemistry 101 class might include material about crude oil, that is not the same meaning as the concept of food produced organically. At least not by any "reasonable" definition of organic as I said in my first post on this subject.

Very few customers purchasing "organic food" would find it acceptable to discover that the food they were buying was treated with crude oil.

It doesn't matter that crude oil from a chemist's viewpoint is an organic compound.

Organic chemistry is a subdiscipline within chemistry involving thescientific study of the structure, properties, composition, reactions, and preparation (by synthesis or by other means) of carbon-based compounds, hydrocarbons, and their derivatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_chemistry
If you are marketing honey, the word "organic", in this sense, has nothing to to with organic chemistry.
 
#127 ·
I used to fog religiously when I started beekeeping eleven (12?) years ago. I got Dr. Rodriguez' manuscript and followed directions precisely for the first two or three years. The bees seemed to work up a resistance to the varroa and I haven't treated since then! When I did fog, however, I would do so as often as every 4 days depending on the mite drops. I used FGMO specially formulated for fogging and sold by STE Oil Company (www.steoil.com. Click on "FGMO"), I used a Burgess propane (not electric) fogger that produces a nice, fine mist. I would fog through the front entrance. . .about 3 seconds until the fog started coming out at the top (cant the outer cover a bit so you know when the hive has enough FGMO fog in it). That would be it. I am lucky enough to have very little varroa problem now. . .3 to 5 mites in a 48-hr drop! The girls really keep them under control. I keep the fogger and oil handy, though. . .just in case. By the way, it works like a dream on tracheal mite as well!
 
#129 ·
When I did fog, however, I would do so as often as every 4 days depending on the mite drops.
So would it be fair to say that your experience (based I assume on reduced mite drops)has shown a fogging lasts approximately 4 days and if so what did you estimate the residual mite numbers in the hive per 100 bees would be at after 5 or 6 consecutive foggings?
 
#128 ·
38.00 for a gal 69.00 for the fogger 107.00 total great bargin if it works.
Well see i'm going to give it a year and keep good records so i'll let the forum know how things turn out.
 
#131 ·
I would think that whether the fog caused them to fall off (which I doubt) or the fog killed them (my choice), it shows that the fogger worked. If you are getting significant mite drop after a fogging, why do it every four days unless the hive was totally overrun with mites and on the verge of collapse to start with. Using the least number of treatments to get the mites down to manageable levels for the bees is the way I would do it. John
 
#132 ·
If you are getting significant mite drop after a fogging, why do it every four days unless the hive was totally overrun with mites and on the verge of collapse to start with.
In the video fatbeeman says “ if you fog once a week you ain’t going to have any mites” but ya only need to do it once every 3 weeks to break the mite/ brood cycle. Not sure if he uses sbb when I did a lot of the fog came out the bottom.
 
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#139 ·
Anyone else notice that both posts addressing how disruptive this stuff is. Include an insult in there comment? When you all really want a pleasant atmosphere. It will become apparent. as for now. Not.
 
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