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  1. #41
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    Nov 2012
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    Columbia, Maryland. U.S.A.
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    capped brood cells are not air tight, only honey

  2. #42
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    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Copied from the link on Varroa mites concerning the life cycle of the mite.

    Within a hive mites can reproduce on a 10-day cycle. The female mite, after detaching from an adult bee, will enter the cell of an uncapped brood. The mite shows preference for the drone brood, but will select what is available. Once the cell is sealed, the female will begin to lay eggs and then expire. As the young bee develops, so will the mites. As soon as the new bee is able to leave its berthing cell, the mites attach themselves and start the cycle anew. The life cycle of the Varroa mite is dependant on the existence of brood within a colony.

    The mite has a 10 day cycle. Brood is capped for 13 days for workers 14 days for drones.

    In a colony where eggs are constantly being laid there is a constant emergence. Also a constant appearance of young female mites looking for the next cell.

    One question I still have. How long is a fogging effective? By the above every mite in a colony would be exposed in 14 days tops. Some other treatments are recommended for twice that long.

    The life cycle of the mite is not nearly as important as how often it is exposed to the colony. And that is going to be every moment for 14 days at least.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,555

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    The interval of any type of treatment should be the length of time that the treatment is effective, its really just that simple. If there is evidence that fgmo fogging kills mites for 7 days then it should be used every 7 days. If the 7 day interval just seems like a good number because its divisible by 21 then I wouldnt consider that anything more than an arbitrary number. I am going to leave it to others to argue about if and for how long fgmo kills mites, unlike some on this forum I post about things I have experience in and I hope my real life experience helps others, I have never claimed expertise in the realm of fgmo fogging.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  4. #44
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    Oct 2011
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    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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    721

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Listened to FatBeeMan again and he says once a week and them suggest once every three weeks. Seems to work for him.

    Point is that mineral oil needs to be applied repeatedly to be effective.
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  5. #45
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Or are you just more interested in making a ridiculous argument?
    Daniel is certainly an acknowledged expert in "making a ridiculous argument." Here is one of his classics, in reference to Superstorm Sandy:
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    At one time I heard this is supposed to be some sort of perfect storm thing though with the hurricane meeting a cold front. I can't find much on that though. At any rate you have a pansy storm that is only gong to get the crap kicked out of it for the next 12 hours or so before it makes a move that will kick more of the crap out of it before it really reaches anyone. And the problem is?
    You can see the quote in context in the thread by clicking the blue arrow in the quote box.

    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  6. #46
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    Jan 2009
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    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Could someone address my question as to whether any real studies have been done, not just a personal observation, on whether FGMO has a negative effect on bees or queen when used regularly, say every week or so? The FGMO is an oil, so it doesn't really evaporate away when it attaches to the bees or interior of hive, so how does it not build up over time? John

  7. #47
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    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    3,155

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Daniel is certainly an acknowledged expert in "making a ridiculous argument." Here is one of his classics, in reference to Superstorm Sandy:


    You can see the quote in context in the thread by clicking the blue arrow in the quote box.

    Radar what you seem to not understand is I think my comment was right. Feel free to disagree. your opinion is not better than mine. I still say that storm was hyped beyond belief. so much so they could not even accurately report the first death from it because they where so tunnel vision about making New York look bad. I said it was hype. it was hype and it continues to be hype. live with it. and keep you nose up the butt of a useless media. I have a brain and tend to use it.

    You might do a little research. at the time I posted that they where predicting wide spread destruction from the Carolinas to Maine. Yep saw that. Not, it was a hurricane that barely survived landfall.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Jim here is one from 1999.
    http://www.apiservices.com/articles/us/mineral_oil.htm

    nearly everything else I have found so far refers back to the above report in some manner or other. I have located other sites by doing a search for fogging bees with mineral oil. in one case Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez gives a detailed description of how to do it.
    http://mainebee.com/articles/mineral_part2.php

    I also found this from 2011.
    http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/assocf...inalReport.pdf

    Copied from the above link

    5. Results
    Data obtained throughout this three-year project clearly suggests the success of FGMO/thymol fogging as a natural, cost-effective and sustainable method of Varroa mite control on the honey bee.
    Much of the success of FGMO/thymol fog for Varroa mite control is evident in the data provided on the average mite count graphs below, but there are also many indirect and informal observations that support the use and recommendation of fogging. Some of these observations include overall strength and vitality of the experimental hives (observed by activity of honey bees at the hive entrance), honey production, over wintering success, and swarming (due to the vigor and population of the experimental hives).
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Radar what you seem to not understand is I think my comment was right. Feel free to disagree. your opinion is not better than mine. I still say that storm was hyped beyond belief. so much so they could not even accurately report the first death from it because they where so tunnel vision about making New York look bad. I said it was hype. it was hype and it continues to be hype. live with it. and keep you nose up the butt of a useless media. I have a brain and tend to use it.

    You might do a little research. at the time I posted that they where predicting wide spread destruction from the Carolinas to Maine. Yep saw that. Not, it was a hurricane that barely survived landfall.
    Daniel Y, How many more people would have needed to die for to have the decency to stop defending your ignorant posting?
    BeeCurious
    5 hives and 8 nucs................... Trying to think inside the box...

  10. #50
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I have a brain and tend to use it.
    Where can we see the evidence of such use?

    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Thank you for the information Daniel Y. John

  12. #52
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Jim here is one from 1999.
    http://www.apiservices.com/articles/us/mineral_oil.htm

    nearly everything else I have found so far refers back to the above report in some manner or other.
    That's the problem. It's a report done by Pedro, and Pedro is nowhere to be found. There has been no update since his early postings.
    Regards, Barry

  13. #53
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    Sep 2011
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    That's the problem. It's a report done by Pedro, and Pedro is nowhere to be found. There has been no update since his early postings.
    Are you saying this is evidence it does not work. I am not aware of the mentioned thread and it's dying off. People want to comment on it but not give specifics. why was the issue dropped?
    Pedro may not have updated it but the method is obviously still being advocated. I have found several reports from various sources concerning the use of mineral oil with various application methods. at least one indicating that application by fogging is more effective. I have not seen one report that indicates that mineral oil is not effective.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Rader, You still haven't found anything to say about bees yet? I realize we all value your perfected onion. But maybe you can learn something about the subject matter once in a while. Your not all that interesting.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  15. #55
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    Dec 1999
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Are you saying this is evidence it does not work.
    I'm saying there is no study done on FGMO that I know of, outside of Pedro's own work. And again, if it was something that had lasting merit, there would still be ongoing work with it. There is none.
    Regards, Barry

  16. #56
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    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    > I have not seen one report that indicates that mineral oil is not effective.

    Read Randy Oliver's comments at ScientificBeekeeping.com Here's the link:
    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/ipm-...tments-part-2/

    You need to read the page in its entirety, but here is a short quote:
    The “fixed” oils–vegetable or food-grade mineral oil (FGMO), or hydrogenated shortening (Crisco) are also often used. Although grease or oil patties have been proven to be effective against tracheal mite (by disrupting its questing behavior), I haven’t had any luck in finding verifiable data demonstrating success in using fixed oils to control varroa. However, fixed oil may be useful as a carrier to distribute essential oils. Indeed, the specific type of oil carrier greatly affects the absorption and excretion of essential oils (Wilson & Isman 2006).​
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  17. #57
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    Reno, NV
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I'm saying there is no study done on FGMO that I know of, outside of Pedro's own work. And again, if it was something that had lasting merit, there would still be ongoing work with it. There is none.
    Did you look at my second link from 2011?
    I don't agree that it is evidence it does not work simply because people don't use it. That is evidence of the choice people made in regard to it. why they would choose that might be for many reasons. Effectiveness may not have anything to do with that choice.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  18. #58
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    Nov 2012
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    Columbia, Maryland. U.S.A.
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    252

    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    I've got ongoing work with it

    WVU/UMD has ongoing work with it

    -Fat Bee Man, Michael Bush I believe, there is quite a bit of ongoing work

  19. #59
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    Jan 2009
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    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    Barry, in all honesty, I don't think there is any treatment for mites that has lasting merit to it, that's why a new treatment comes along every couple years or so. I think every treatment that has been invented has done some good towards mite population reduction, some are better than others. I don't want to divert this thread into another treat or not treat discussion, so I won't, but to say one form of treatment isn't worth using (I know you are not saying this) in favor of another is not helping us gain any ground on varroa, because none of them do the job we are looking for, which is complete erradication of mites in the hive, isn't that what we all hope for in a treatment or new genetics? John

  20. #60
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: Fogging your bees?

    No one finds it odd that the guy who first started broadcasting the use of FGMO is silent and nowhere to be found? Nothing new on it since it was made public on discussion forums many years ago? It appears to me to be more like another Housel Positioning. Use it if you want. Broadcast your success with it. I've never had the need to try it. Got a brand new fogger to sell someone!
    Regards, Barry

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