Fogging your bees?

[Maryland Beekeeper]

from what I gather, inhaling atomized petrochemicals is unhealthy, add essential oils and it becomes dangerous

[lazy shooter]

Does fogging kill anything else other than varroa mites?

[jim lyon]

Barry: I hope when you threw out the old corduroy suits and hush puppies in your last closet cleaning that you saved the old mineral oil forum. Looks like its coming back in style.

[johno]

Jim, fogging seems another of the varoa stories that devides beekeepers, there is some info avaiable on tests conducted by some gentleman which seems to support the fact that is effective against mites. AS also the use of formic acid and am not to sure about papers on the use of oxalic acid. I have now the means to administer all 3 of those treatments and have made use of the first two, there is no doubt that formic acid kills mites and I have used afogger on some hives with EMO and 2 drops per oz and have seen quite a few dead mites on the bottom board thereafter. So come springtime that will be anther system I would like to evaluate.
Johno

[GLOCK]

This will be my first year fogging,so I will use mineral oil only.I don't see the benefits of adding other oils such as,thyme.I plan to fog in the spring before adding supers then in august when I pull supers and once more in the fall.

Me to DC so i quess we will see if it works i to am going with mineral oil i think i may give the baby oil a try since MR BEE said his uncle been using it for 30 years and is chemical free.
I bought a fogger today at HOME DEPOT so we'll see how it go's this spring

[Maryland Beekeeper]

lazy,
With the thousands of bacteria present the chances are high that some are affected negatively, as with any treatment the question is, do the benefits outweigh the risk ?

My opinion is that the B's don't like it one bit

p.s. baby oil is mineral oil with fragrance added

[Barry]

Jim, I looked, but along with the old corduroy suits and hush puppies, the FGMO forum went as well. I had it for awhile, but finally deleted it all. Remember, it started out as FGMO fogging only with a cotton cord or two that had been saturated, placed in the hive. Eventually thymol was used as well. I have a fogger that's never been used, still in the box if I could sell it to someone.

[adgjoan]

I wonder why fogging was not well received by beekeepers years ago? What are the down falls of fogging?

[jim lyon]

I haven't heard of any negatives associated with fgmo fogging. It no doubt encourages some additional grooming action in the hive which I suppose can't be bad. The real question is are there any quantifiable benefits in controlling varroa. I have no personal experience with it, I only heard a number of second hand accounts of beekeepers that tried it for a year or two and then quit because it didn't seem to have much , if any, effect in controlling varroa. That and the fact that there used to be a lot of spirited debate on Beesource about fgmo is about all I know.

[GLOCK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g7GdrZoNhA
A little off topic but i don't know about this fogging thing.

[jim lyon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g7GdrZoNhA
A little off topic but i don't know about this fogging thing.

Now we're talking. Finally something that will actually kill varroa.

[mgolden]

Truthfully, I'm not exactly sure. I can only surmise that he fogs when needed.
I will find out this spring though and update. Guessing at least 3-4 times a season? That's guessing though. I imagine it would hinge upon the mite load.

Attached is information on mite life cycle.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeeping/Varroa_Mite

Mites enter cell with larvae about a day before cell is capped. Fogging will not be doing any harm to mites in capped cells. Think one would have to fog once a week for three weeks min to affect all the mites. I know it is recommended that Apivar strips be left in the hive for 42 days.

Mineral oil may not be effective because iy is not being appplied repeatedly. Have seen a video where a thin bead of mineral oil is applied along top of each brood frame with each inspection( some 7-10 days for hobby bee keepers).

Would appreciate any insights from others.

[jim lyon]

Seems like I hear this "once a week for 3 weeks" thing a lot regarding treatments. More is better no doubt but remember a mite may only see the light of day for a matter of hours perhaps even less. When a hive is rapidly expanding its a target rich environment for a varroa. I really doubt that they spend up to a week shopping for the perfect larvae.

[Mr.Beeman]

[mgolden]

Seems like I hear this "once a week for 3 weeks" thing a lot regarding treatments. More is better no doubt but remember a mite may only see the light of day for a matter of hours perhaps even less. When a hive is rapidly expanding its a target rich environment for a varroa. I really doubt that they spend up to a week shopping for the perfect larvae.

Suggest a read of the varraoa life cycle in the attachment above. When the adult varroa is laying eggs in a capped cell, a mineral oil application is doing nothing to control continuing infestation of hatching and emerging new varroa, unless there is repeated mineral oil application.

[Daniel Y]

Jim, I have read one study that indicated a mite is dead with 2 minutes of exposure. I am not sure that treating once a week for 3 weeks has anything to do with how long a mite is exposed as it has to do with exposing as many mites as possible as bees emerge. the brood cycle of a bee is 21 days. somewhat explains the 3 week connection. Only 13 of those days are spent in a sealed cell so there is actually an additional week in the recommended treatment.

In addition no matter what treatment you use you are still trying to get to the same mite. With the same life cycle and presenting the same problems to get at it.

Finally you have the life span of the treatment to consider. If fogging remains effective for 7 days any mite the comes out of a cell is exposed. For the entire week. not just when fogging is under way. Fogging breaks down the oil to minute particles and coats the hive better is how I understand it. it is not the fog itself that is killing the mites. it is the presence of the oil in the hive. Treating mites with oil is nothing new. I was doing it in the early 70's.

I also suspect fogging has never caught on in part because it requires time and effort. As well as needs to be repeated week after week. I am not sure the repeated application is necessary though depending on how long the oil remains effective in the hive.

[GLOCK]

MR BEE MAN
The new foggers are more stylish.
I seen that tube thats what got me to go out and buy a fogger .
Is that your uncle?

[jim lyon]

Yes, and unless your treatment is constantly available to kill the varroa as it emerges and quickly reinfests then the one week time frame is nothing more than an arbitrary number. Why not every day for 21 days?

[Daniel Y]

Jim do you take cold medicine none stop until the symptoms go away? I have heard you will get cured of a cold right fast that way. You are still thinking the only time a mite gets killed is the moment the fog is in the hive. a fogging according to the video kills mites fro 21 days. Fogging is just the application method. Not the treatment period. Think about it a while. Or are you just more interested in making a ridiculous argument?

[Mr.Beeman]

Not my uncle.... he's young comapared to my uncle. lol

I like this fogger.... $60.00 plus tax ..... built in the USA

0000000082815.jpg