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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Strafford, NH, USA
    Posts
    409

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Mr. C I like your 2X4 with squaring jig for your boxes and might just borrow the idea and try that out. I just picked up a couple of squaring strap clamps and am going to try thos as well.

    Have you ever had a top bar bind up and shoot out of that jig? Looks like a 10" powered top bar gun

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clackamas Oregon
    Posts
    781

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    I made up a jig and cut a chunk of hand holds. I have also used more than one skil saw on the jig and only had to modify my center line a smidge. I would think that since you need to plunge the blade to make the cut that the saw would try to twist and bind sideways. I have found I set the ‘foot’ of the saw to the front of the cradle and plunge and move down the sled. I would not classify myself as a “good woodworker” but I have built a bit of furniture.
    I was thinking of trying using the dato cut on the box first and then lining your jig with the nice sharp cut for the bevel.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Coopersville, Michigan
    Posts
    260

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Fisherman43:

    No thus far I have not had any launches, but that doesn't mean I'm not standing off to the side the whole time just in case =). The trick is to keep feeding the boards slowly and smoothly (I keep a long narrow push stick to push the last one through). I don't let go of the one I'm putting in until I have another feeding behind it. I find most launches ripping boards are due to not holding or blocking them. If you aren't letting go they tend not to have the opportunity to accelerate against the saw blade.

    Minz:
    I played with my jig a while in order to get it to make the undercut properly. I found that you can't plunge the end of the last cut. I get close to the bottom and then let the saw slide down the rest of the way cutting as it goes. Not sure that explanation makes any sense, but it worked tolerable well. Never had any twisting with my saw.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,038

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    I made this funky video about my handhold jig. Please don't judge my carpentry by this box. I made seven out of re-purposed redwood siding and they were different thickness. The box in the video was # 7 made out of all the mismatched parts and hobbled together pieces. The bees won't notice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2q5Hnogvqg

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Good job Ollie. Good Video.

    Can I be your agent when Hollywood starts calling.

    cchoganjr

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Everybody....I saw a new video on UTube on making hand holds. This one using a radial arm saw.

    To see it, go to UTube and search, Making Hand Holds in the Beekeepers Workshop by Steve Tilman Good video, good sound, and it makes a nice hand hold, and if you like the radical undercut on the handle, it will do it.

    This one only makes the hand hold the width of the saw blade radial, requires adjusting the blade 3 times during the cut, but again, if you want the undercut handle, it will make it.


    If someone knows how to do it, you could cut and paste the link to the video and anyone wanting to view it could just click on it. If I figure out how to do it, I will post it. UPDATE..... Check below, I pasted the link.

    I think I will stay with my simple little jig that uses a Skil Saw. Simple, fast, safe.

    cchoganjr

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Lets see if this link to the Steve Tilman, making Hand Holds in the Beekeepers Workshop video will work.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyxfRMMD7SU

    O.K. i just tried it and it works. Check it out, it may be what you are looking for.

    cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 01-03-2013 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Verify link will work

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,850

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    I use a molding knife holder with cove blades on my table saw.


    I made my own set up using a molding knife with cove blades:



    I fold the board down on one end, then repeat on the other.




    But I nearly always get tear out on one side of the hand hold



    Any idea how to stop this tear out?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,038

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    I see similar tear out on some commercial boxes so it must be a common, hard to solve problem. I make the cut on assembled boxes, more to hold on to and control, and hands further away from the blade. Make sure your blades are razor sharp. Try working from different directions. Try a shallow cut and then a deeper cut.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,850

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    I see similar tear out on some commercial boxes so it must be a common, hard to solve problem.
    I'll see it occasionally on budget or commercial grade boxes. But I'm getting it just about every time. Some times worse than the picture I posted. I rarely get a smooth handle on either side.

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    I make the cut on assembled boxes, more to hold on to and control, and hands further away from the blade.
    I don't see any issue with doing it one unassembled board at a time. After reading your post above about doing it on assembled boxes, I was expecting the blade to grab the board and throw it like crazy. It wasn't bad though. I gave myself about 2.5" lip on the front and the back of the jig, more than your (what I can only assume is) 3/4". This may make a difference though, and is obviously something you wouldn't need if you had a whole board to hold onto.

    At any point in time, my hands are at least 6" away from the blade, and always has wood between the blade and my hand. The only way it would be a problem is if I didn't have the jig (stupid) or one of the cutter blades flew off the cutter head.

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    Make sure your blades are razor sharp.
    Brand new. No issue there.

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    Try working from different directions.
    I noticed more tear out before I made the zero clearance insert (for obvious reasons). I NEVER move the board from back to front on the table saw. If I fold the board down like you see in the first picture, then push the board away from me, I get more tear out than if I just fold the board down in the first picture (which is the opposite of what I thought would happen), then fold it down like in the second picture, then push between the two. I've tried just about every option.

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    Try a shallow cut and then a deeper cut.
    I was really hoping you wouldn't say that.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Niskayuna, NY, USA
    Posts
    97

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Does your blade have too big clearance on your table insert? It's hard to see from the picture, but a zero clearance table insert should help.

    It might also be from lowering the work into the blade on each side. Anytime the workpiece is above, or unsupported by the table, there can be tearout.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,850

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by No-sage View Post
    Does your blade have too big clearance on your table insert?
    Naw.



    Quote Originally Posted by No-sage View Post
    It might also be from lowering the work into the blade on each side. Anytime the workpiece is above, or unsupported by the table, there can be tearout.
    Well, I have to lower it on the one side. When I tried then pushing the wood into the blade, I got more tear out than when I lowered it on the other side.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Chesnee,S.C.
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Mr. Hogan, a r.hand saw tilts to the right, a l. hand saw tilts to the left. so it seems that it would work well for handholds. building stairs back in the 70's, the right side skirt board we cut normal & the left side we had to back into the board.( very tricky) sometime in the late 70's or early 80's I found a left hand circular saw. it made those hard cuts very easy. my dad didn't believe in bad joints or using molding to cover up bad work. I never cut hand holds, I just use a piece of 1x2 or something & the bees have not complained yet. have a googd nite.
    wishbone

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Wishbone... That is what I have been told, but, a left hand saw is hard to find. I have been asking around and have not found anyone that has one.

    I cut mine with the right hand saw and have the tilt set on 20 degrees. That makes a slight convex handle, which i like better than the undercut. I don't wear gloves, and the undercut hurts my fingers. It is like picking up a box with a razor blade. Perhaps if you wear gloves the undercut would not be bad.

    cchoganjr

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Chesnee,S.C.
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    mr. Hogan, I called the tool shed in Greenville,s.c 864-233-6185, they have a milwaulke 71/4" left hand for 149.00. he said all worm drive saws are left hand, but worm drives are real heavy. we use saws all day every day & Makita out lasts everything else. I don't like undercuts either, that's why I use a 3/4 slat or a 2x4. I don't wear gloves either, but do have them close by. I do use a veil since I got stung in the eyeball about3 years ago. thanks, randy williams
    wishbone

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Wishbone... I am with you on the veil.. I ALWAYS wear a veil and I absolutely insist when someone is in my yard splitting or inspecting bees that they wear a veil. I too keep gloves handy if they get rowdy, but only really use them in harvesting honey and if I am in a hurry.

    Thanks Randy... I like the hand hold that my $39.00 Skil brand makes. It has made a few thousand hand holds and I have only changed the blade one time and that was because I found a stiffer blade. The one that was on the saw when I made the U-Tube video was a thin blade and would flex some, and it did not have teeth inserts. I found out that a stiffer blade, with inserts, made a nicer cut.

    cchoganjr

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,416

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    Why don't I see a cutter for making a nice triangle on foundationless frames?
    Oh now I see it on the Blades site, only $300+ to get set up.
    It's just a rip blade set to 45 degrees. Make two passes. $20 at HD.
    http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/frames/

  18. #38
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Fruita, Colorado
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Check this page out I use it all the time he is good. Made my hand holds just like these and the look profesonial

    http://www.michiganbees.org/beekeepi...pers-workshop/

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Chesnee,S.C.
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    my daughters gave me a ultrabreeze jacket after the eyeball sting. eyeball sting was not bad at all, minor pain for 2 or 3 hours, then it cleared up. but it scared us for fear of loosing the eye. stings don't bother much anyway. most of the time I don't even know when I get stung. that jacket is the best thing since sliced bread.
    wishbone

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by WISHBONE View Post
    is the best thing since sliced bread.
    WISHBONE... actually I am a big fan of sliced bread.

    cchoganjr

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