Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 40
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    HELP... Need some info from good woodworkers. I recently had a question from a couple of people who have used my system for cutting hand holds, utilizing the jig and plans on UTube. Specifically, can the Skil Saw be set to make an undercut handle rather than a straight or slightly protruding cut. Here was my answer, but, as you can see, much of what I said, is what I have been told, not tried. Can anyone comment, have you tried it. Will it work.

    I have my Skil Saw blade, set on 20 degrees table tilt, ( a $39.00 Skil Saw), I like that grip better than those exaggerated undercuts that cut into your fingers. The 20 degrees will make a fat gripping surface that protrudes slightly and I think is comfortable for lifting deep and shallow boxes. It seems to me that the table tilt set on 10 degrees (or maybe it was 15), will make a straight cut. I haven't changed my saw tilt since 2002. Made several thousand boxes since then. Changed blade one time, and that was to put on a thicker (stiffer) blade, with inserts, than the one used in the video.

    If you are asking if you can make those cuts with the razor edge and under slant, I don't know. Until beesource (Barry), made up a new set of drawings for my invention, I did not even know that they made left hand and right hand circular saws. Mine have always been right hand saws.

    While I have never tried it, I have been told, that, if you used a left hand saw, set on 15 or 20 degrees table tilt, it may produce the undercut, cut. I have never tried it. I don't have a left hand saw. However, if you use a left hand saw, it would seem to me that you would need to use the stop on the right, because the rotation of the blade will be opposite of the video. Rather than pushing against the side safety stop on the left, the rotation of the blade would be pushing against the right stop, and you would need to rock the saw from the left side. If you try this, PLEASE be careful. I have never tried it.

    Does anyone know if this will work. What about it Daniel Y,.... other good woodworkers,...... I don't have a left hand saw. I know there are many who like the deep undercut handles.

    cchoganjr

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,743

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    I imagine in theory it would work if you matched the angle of your saw to the angle of the jig, it would produce a 90 degree upper finger hold.
    If the saw was tiled on more of an angle, it would produce an undercut handle. The saw blade would have to be able to drop enough to accomplish this.
    Last edited by Mr.Beeman; 01-02-2013 at 07:26 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Strafford, NH, USA
    Posts
    409

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    What about a similar jig but for a handheld router with a dovetail bit

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Richmond, VA UNITED STATES
    Posts
    163

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    I have a left handed magnesium saw and planned to use your method Cleo. I just haven't gotten to it.

    I have found that many times, more than 1 jig is needed for some methods. I'll take a look as I've built many jigs. It's possible you need 2 jigs, with a reference pin. Meaning, you drill a small 1/8 or 3/32 hole and create a pin for the two jigs. Then, you flip the saw around on the 2nd jig at the angle needed to cut the hand hold. I also wanted a longer hand hold than what is shown, so I planned on modifying mine to allow a wider hand hold. We'll see if I get around to it this winter.

    Rob.

    www.mongrelbees.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Fisherman 43..... Wouldn't using a router and dovetail bit, give you the same cut as a saw blade? You would still need some way to make the undercut.

    To make an undercut, as opposed to a straight, or slightly protruding, (convex) cut, the table on the Skil Saw will need to tilt opposite the direction that a right hand Skil Saw tilts. Do all right hand saws tilt the same way. If they don't, then, that is a whole different scenario. Since I don't have a left hand Skil Saw, I don't know which way they tilt.

    I don't like the razor thin undercut, as it hurts my fingers, but, some people do. I'm hoping that someone with a left hand saw will tell us whether it will make the cut or not. Then we can tell everyone, and they can make the cut they like.

    RobWok... By longer did you mean top to bottom, or side to side? If you want it wider, side to side, simply make your ramps wider (on the inside) so that on your 2d or 3d cut, you slide the saw 1/4 to 1/2 inch to the right and bring the saw down again. If you want it wider, top to bottom, make the angle of the ramps less. You may notice on the UTube video I say a 19 degree slope for the ramps, but, if you build the jig by my plans or Barry's plans, the angle will be 15 degrees. You can vary the width by changing the degree slope of the ramps on the jig. I changed it to 15 degrees some years ago, but when making the video, I reverted to the original 19 degree slope without realizing it. Didn't notice it until someone brought it to my attention. Now I tell them to go by the instructions, not by what I said on the Video A 19 degree angle will make a longer cut, top to bottom.

    I don't think you can flip the saw around, as that would place the blade of the saw, at the rear of the jig, not where you are cutting the hand hold. I believe you would need a left hand saw, or as you said, a 2d jig..

    cchoganjr

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Cleo

    For your own personal use are you building enough boxes to justify buying a Shaper and doing it right? An economy shaper can be bought for a few hundred dollars and a good used one in the same price range. I think for anybody who has more than a few hives and builds their own boxes a shaper would be the way to go.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Bluegrass,... No, actually I am about to retire from beekeeping and woodworking. Will keep a few bees but not sell any more, and may make a few boxes, tops, bottom boards, but very few.

    I had a Delta Shaper some time back, but, I never used it enough to justify it taking up space. (Had it since 1959). In my search to make the hand holds, many years ago, I never found a bit that the shaper would accept and would make the professional looking hand hold. (Actually I did find one, but they wanted $1800.00 for it) and it would not fit my shaper without some modification. That is why I came up with the Skil Saw Method. For my purposes, this method is completely acceptable. Makes a very nice hand hold, and looks like those made by the professional machines.. The only thing I have found is that some people want a radical undercut on the hand hold. So I am trying to help them. I like the convex hand hold, much, much, better than an undercut. The undercut hurts my fingers. The slight convex is comfortable for lifting deep and shallow supers.

    cchoganjr

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,038

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    I use a molding knife holder with cove blades on my table saw. I assemble the box first so that I have it all to hold onto while I cut the handhold. I made a jig the right size and place it in the right place on the table so that I can drop the box down onto the running blade and then just move it around the opening of the jig.
    This is the blade on the saw in the jig:


    Closeup of blade:



    The handhold it cuts:


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo,MI
    Posts
    331

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Can you give me the size of the cove blade? Takes three right? Where did they come from?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,647

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,038

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    It takes one holder and three blades. I think mine is 3/4". A 5/8" would make a softer bowl.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,038

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Why don't I see a cutter for making a nice triangle on foundationless frames?
    Oh now I see it on the Blades site, only $300+ to get set up.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,647

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    You could use this

    http://corobcutters.com/2490degreefl...dingknife.aspx

    but you would have to make two passes to get the triangle and still use a saw blade to cut the shoulder flat.
    Regards, Barry

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    odfrank...Nice hand hold. And close to the Commercial looking ones. Do you have your jig anchored in the miter grooves on the table.

    Barry...I had that Cove molding head and just never thought about using it because it was only about 3/4 width and did not look like the commercial cuts.

    cchoganjr

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,267

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Cleo, please don't retire from Beesource. I appreciate your contributions.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Strafford, NH, USA
    Posts
    409

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    Why don't I see a cutter for making a nice triangle on foundationless frames?
    Oh now I see it on the Blades site, only $300+ to get set up.
    How about this Edge V setup in a router table? Less than $40

    http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...8&site=ROCKLER

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Strafford, NH, USA
    Posts
    409

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    Fisherman 43..... Wouldn't using a router and dovetail bit, give you the same cut as a saw blade? You would still need some way to make the undercut.
    cchoganjr
    Depending on the degree angle of dovetail bit you use you could offset the jig angle enough to make a flat or even slightly concave handhold.

    It is probably similar to the saw blade angles, but Santa brought me a new router and router table for Christmas (I did my own shopping ) so I am having fun playing with my new toy

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,038

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    odfrank... Do you have your jig anchored in the miter grooves on the table.
    No, it is screwed to the fence. That way I could adjust the distance from the top of the box, which I have set for two inches.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,937

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    odfrank... I just wondered. I have that cove molding, just never used it. I thought I might play with it as soon as I get all my boxes that I need, built.

    I have my hand holds, 2" from top also. I was just thinking I could anchor the frame jig, in the miter grooves, and they would always set up exactly the same without measuring. Just drop in miter grooves and clamp with a "C" clamp. Might play around with it next Spring. Right now I am building all the boxes, tops, bottom boards that I need for the Nucs next Spring.

    cchoganjr

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Coopersville, Michigan
    Posts
    260

    Default Re: Making undercut hand holds on bee boxes

    I guess I can respond to the original question on the thread, yes you can make the undercut handle, that's what I do. I'm only moderately happy with it though as my skill saw doesn't make the cut as deep as I'd like because of the angle. I'm going to try and change the jig this winter to see if I can get a deeper cut. I'll try to post some pics, but I just started a new kitchen construction project so I may not have a lot of extra time to play with bee stuff. Some pics of the finished boxes from last year with the handles.
    http://s1113.beta.photobucket.com/us...29275163990451



    As to foundationless frames, why buy something you don't need. I just run them through the jig on the table saw and into a basket on the other end. You have to run them through twice, but it goes really fast with the next piece pushing each through.
    http://s1113.beta.photobucket.com/us...03075223725739

    Hopefully the links work

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads