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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philippines
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    18

    Default Having problems with the design

    Hey guys,

    I'm having a bit of a problem with the design of the langstroth. The carpenter I'm working with is having a problem getting the notches in, you know those square bits on the edges of the four corners where they pop into each other? He doesn't seem to know how to create those. Any suggestions?

    They're circled in red here:



    DISCLAIMER: The photograph is not mine, I just found it online. This was the best example I could find and I apologize to whoever the picture belongs to.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    965

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    You need a real carpenter and not just a guy that gets paid to swing a hammer.
    He needs a dado blade.
    A good carpenter should have no problem making a jig (or sled) to space the cuts.
    There are a number of youtube vids illustrating such jigs.

    If your guy can't make one, he shouldn't have trouble finding a carpenter who can.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Newport News, Va
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Ditto to what Beregondo said. Also look up how to make a box joint or finger joint. You can make a lap joint without a dado blade and it works just as well. Good luck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,888

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Josh, an alternate box design is to skip the "box joints" and just dado (rabbet) the ends of the boards at the corners where they join. Be sure to glue (Titebond II or III is best) and nail or staple the joints as well. You can rabbet each mating board, or alternatively, just the side board and leave the end boards full thickness. There are multiple threads available using Search about this, here's one of them:
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...on-their-boxes

    Post #10 of that thread has a good diagram of what a corner with both boards rabbeted, but you can also just rabbet only one board at each corner. Show that diagram to your carpenter and discuss the options.


    And guys, please note that Josh is in the Phillipines before you bash his carpenter.
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO United States
    Posts
    359

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    And guys, please note that Josh is in the Phillipines before you bash his carpenter.[/QUOTE]

    They do not have good carpenters in the Phillipines?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,888

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Quote Originally Posted by fieldsofnaturalhoney View Post
    They do not have good carpenters in the Phillipines?
    I don't know, I have never been to the Phillipines. Have you?

    I expect that somewhere in that country, someone does know how to make box joints. But whether Josh can afford that person's services, delivered to his specific location, is a different question. Unless you have been there and assessed the local economic situation, it takes a lot of hubris on your part to assert that you know what the situation is better than Josh, who is there!
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,793

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    joshc1025... go to utube and search box joints. There are lots of good videos there to show you how to make box joints, or, as suggested above, you can make rabbet joints. Good videos on those joints also.

    Good Luck. I have been to the Philippines, (Clark and Subic) there are lots of good carpenters/craftsmen there. I have a very nice, hand carved, Eagle, solid mahogny, from the Philippines in 1968.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    We do have professional carpenters with state of the art equipment and as I understand they don't charge for much, just around 300 dollars. I was actually thinking of ordering the parts of the langstroth from the US unassembled. I figure it would be around the same price.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,384

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Box joints can be cut by hand using a back saw, but if your carpenter has access to a table saw and dado blade, a jig will allow him to cut the joint.

    http://www.beesource.com/files/boxjoint.pdf
    Regards, Barry

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,793

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Josh... Shipping cost will be the big issue. Will likely be quite expensive. Is it possible to buy any used equipment locally. That might be your best bet.

    cchoganjr

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    That's what I'm worried about as well. We'll see, if the price is manageable then why not.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO United States
    Posts
    359

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    I don't know, I have never been to the Phillipines. Have you?

    I expect that somewhere in that country, someone does know how to make box joints. But whether Josh can afford that person's services, delivered to his specific location, is a different question. Unless you have been there and assessed the local economic situation, it takes a lot of hubris on your part to assert that you know what the situation is better than Josh, who is there!
    Rader Sidetrack, no hubris,, I did not assert that I knew his situation better, I simply asked a question, because no matter where you are, if one person can not get it done, you can find someone that can, as mentioned above from others. And no I have not been to the Phillipines, but I would go with you and site see, find a good carpenter, and visit Josh C1021

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    5,888

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Quote Originally Posted by fieldsofnaturalhoney View Post
    And no I have not been to the Phillipines, but I would go with you and site see, find a good carpenter, and visit Josh C1021
    Cool!


    Perhaps my earlier comment was a little harsh, but it seemed as though more than one post was beating up Josh for not having a better carpenter, without recognizing that the situation in his country may be different from the US.
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
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    1,483

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    ... situation in his country may be different from the US.
    Where you have many good carpenters in US? I did not know a single one. Good carpenters are diminishing species as well as good mechanics etc. To find even a decent painter to paint the house is a huge problem! We got one, but he is from England.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Phoenixville, PA
    Posts
    579

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Well, IMHO finger joints are better left to cabinet makers, not carpenters.

    That said, before I go through the effort and mistakes of box, finger or rabbet joints, I'd butt the ends together with glue and fasten with self drilling deck screws from both directions. I made nuc feeders from scraps that way and later used them for stools. The wood breaks before the screws, the glue takes out any wiggle, the girls don't mind and after a few years everything weathers beyond the details.

    Good luck and keep us posted.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,514

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    You know a good carpenter now Sergey. Let me know if you need one and send me a ticket. Oh yeah, I'm one heck of a painter as well.

    bbqtable.jpg

    I built this (no plans just a picture) out of a 30 year old redwood fence.


    Built this as well (no plans) in one week.

    P3120066.jpg

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beeman View Post
    Built this as well (no plans) in one week.
    Very impressive, especially for doing so in one week!

    But if there were no plans, how do you manage to get a building permit? It does appear that the garage is attached to the house ...
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,483

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beeman View Post
    You know a good carpenter now Sergey...
    Beautiful craftsman work! I always have a deep respect to handmade stuff and people with hands. Did you use finger joints on drawer? By the way - I do not like rollers - they do not match the beautiful wood!

    I'll add a few pictures of my creation later - I did. Note, that I do not consider myself as a skilled carpenter... with my wife we build 60 bookshelves to accommodate our library. Cabinet on right is Ikea stained and varnished to match the rest.

    Many thanks for sharing! Sergey
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by cerezha; 12-19-2012 at 09:13 PM.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,514

    Default Re: Having problems with the design

    Raider,
    Here a simple hand sketched drawing and a materials list is sufficient for a BP. That and I've been building for over 17 years so inspectors know my work first hand.

    Sergey,
    The casters were installed for ease of movement. This is actually a bar b que cart with a tiled top that was built for one of my customers. Although he refuses to use it as a cart. lol I think it just sits there and looks good.
    Nice shelving units.
    Josh,
    Sorry if I hijacked your post.

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