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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Yes fully intend to give the boxes going to winter every reasonable chance to make it through winter

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Yes it is, My intention is to make the splits and hope the fall flow is enough, But the backup plan is to combine the weak nucs if needed and winter the rest taking all necessary precautions I.E. fondant/candy boards ventilation etc

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Haymarket, Virginia
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Interesting. I was wondering if adequate feeding would be a sufficient substitute in absence of a fall flow. Looks like the answer is yes, although, I'm sure there are 100 caveats to that too.

    We won't have the hives or space to do this first year, but I'd be interested to see how your plan works out and maybe try to pull it off next year.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,949

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Plans are nice, but the bees seldom do what you expect when you expect it. They may take off faster than you think, or slower. You may be able to do more splits or none. I'd play it by ear.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    The truth is I got the inspiration from Mel Disselkoen and his site and Video I seen on YouTube. On how he did his splits in spring summer. I figure if all else fails I can recombine as necessary and go from there. Even if I can get same number I started with or one two extra hives to take-off by next spring I think would call it a success / lucky.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    proctorsville, vermont
    Posts
    152

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    if it works for you thats the way to do it.you could do the same thing later and not have it work. hhhhhmmmm!
    thats the way i roll.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    Follower boards of Aluminum clad styrofoam work well and you can easily expand or contract the area the bees have to heat.
    I like this idea will try this spring thanks

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    longton, kansas USA
    Posts
    596

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    yeah i would recommend just buying 5 or more NUCS and splitting what you can. bottomline is that you cant rush them or count on what you think may happen. and the colony just needs to be acclimated and over wintered to strengthen the colony and queen. im not being negative and i only have a year and a half experience but i tried to do what you are looking to do and it just doesnt work out like it sounds. not to mention that you are counting on just splitting your brood boxes up. you have to remember that a colony needs certain things in those frames to make it. brood,nectar,honey,pollen,eggs,queen cells,royal jelly.............. its pretty involved my friend.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Thankyou I will take your advice and seriously consider it. That is why I posted it on here to get the input from different people and see what the general conscious is on the idea I posted. thanks again

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    935

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    6010 - I'll chime in with Throrope, Daniel Y, and Michael Bush. That first spring split is most often an easy one on good years, that second split doesn't usually happen without making a colony that peters out before the next year is through. It is often better to build a strong colony. You'll get to know by how many bees are coming and going out the front opening before they swarm after a couple years, and by listening very carefully, when it is time to split. Feeding makes a difference, but not like a nectar flow.

    I'd recommend a few things - 1) read Dr. Lawrence John Connor's book, Increase Essentials, 2) re-queen using a Laidlaw-type queen introduction cage (photos in his book, Contemporary Queen Rearing), 3) stay equipment ahead of the bees.

    Many of us had the exact same dream - getting into a business that can quadruple itself every year. It can happen, it just doesn't happen very often, but a 4-box tall, over-wintered colony can be split into 6 nucs! Which method is more likely to put you waist-deep in bees?

    We refine our skills with many years' experience to get to know the answers, and the best beekeepers have made the most mistakes, but learned from them! And they stuck to it, after a lot of stings and frustration. Good luck!
    Last edited by kilocharlie; 02-04-2013 at 10:03 AM.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Thank-you for that I see your point and completely understand where you are coming from, I do have a dream a very ambitious dream that may or may not get shattered, but I will am willing to try with the help of people like you giving me pointers along the way . as far as the second split I will not do anymore splits then what I think the bees can handle. I can not make a large bee population of bees if I kill them off

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    well just as an update this weekend i just bought 6 used deep boxes with empty frames for $60 from an old state inspector boxes where in good condition and frames half of them year old, now have to get tops and bottoms ??????????????????
    Rick Kumer

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    935

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Good going - there's 3) stay equipment ahead of the bees!

    Did you read 1) Larry Connor's book Increase Essentials? He really explains the math of increaser colonies, and the differences between a package bee colony with a foreign queen (which rarely is successful enough to make one split) vs. an Over-Wintered Nucleus colony (OWN), which actually has a good chance of making 2 splits.

    Have you made a few Laidlaw-type queen introduction cages? There is no better way to introduce a new queen.

    Good Luck, buddy!

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Franklin County, PA
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    I like what everyone is writing. Many of you have helped me since I started 3 years ago. I did a bunch of splits because I tried different queen rearing techniques and would try to keep the nice swarm cells I saw. Part of what I experienced was that I needed frames of young brood for the new queen cells to get started so it becomes a balancing act of taking some but not too much from the stronger hives to get the new ones going strong. If I didn't give the queens a certain number of young bees the queen wouldn't take off in some cases. Then I would add some more frames of larvae and then boom the queen would start laying. Making splits taught me a bunch of things and gave me a better eye for spotting queens. There will be a bunch of variables as others have suggested. I just bought Dr. Lawrence John Connor's book, Increase Essentials Thanks for the recommendation kilocharlie

    http://www.amazon.com/Increase-Essen...pr_product_top


    If your packages are excellent I would say you will be able to take from them but it may deplete the number of worker bees in those colonies and that may affect the strength of them as far as their ability to pack away the honey they will need and have to cap. I think it might be easier to do this the second year because at least in my case the second year the bees produced a bunch of beautiful swarm cells and were plenty strong to take some frames from. The package bees I have purchased have done well some better than others but In general in our area the package bees if managed so they don't swarm are just about right to get strong enough to have stores before winter. If you plan to buy queens it will help and if you have drawn comb that will help but if your bees have too much to do it may thin them too much so you will have to keep your eye on the weather and queen strength and how much food they are bringing in etc. I hope it works out for you and the weather cooperates and stuff. It will definitely teach you things and probably provide you with some surprises.
    Good Luck!!!

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    Good going - there's 3) stay equipment ahead of the bees!

    Did you read 1) Larry Connor's book Increase Essentials?
    No but it is on my list of books to read

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    Have you made a few Laidlaw-type queen introduction cages? There is no better way to introduce a new queen.

    Good Luck, buddy!
    I will look into those style cages not familiar with that name of cage
    Rick Kumer

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Plantsville, Ct.
    Posts
    176

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Great discussion here! I am a first year beekeeper getting close to successfully wintering my first hive. I started last may with a 5 frame nuc from Rick at NEBEES and they thrived and grew so fast that I couldn't believe it. I thought about doing a late split was concerned they wouldn't build up enough in time for winter.
    I do plan to split them in the spring and I have also ordered 2 packages for March 25th. My goal is to be able to build them up enough in 2 months to be able to sell 2 good 5 frame Nucs, re-queen and still have a minimum of 3 hives.
    My existing hive has wintered in 2 deeps and that is what I plan to use for the new packages as well. I'm thinking I can steal a few frames from my existing hive to get the packages going faster, but I do not really want to cut into honey production from my over wintered hive. 😁
    Any thoughts as to what i should give the 2 packages for frames?

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Loup City, NE
    Posts
    179

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    6010, Give Mel Disselkoen's OTS splitting method a chance. It really works.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Plantsville, Ct.
    Posts
    176

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Rick, as I read back it looks like I'm trying to hijack your thread. Sorry, that wasn't my intention.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyBeeGood View Post
    Rick, as I read back it looks like I'm trying to hijack your thread. Sorry, that wasn't my intention.
    No worries here on my part, I was just as curious as you are
    Rick Kumer

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    centerville, IA, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Be gentle I am new to this. the Subject is making splits

    Quote Originally Posted by CtyAcres View Post
    6010, Give Mel Disselkoen's OTS splitting method a chance. It really works.

    Mels style of splits has peaked my interest as much as Mike Palmer and Mike Bush style of bee keeping. I am open to anyway that works and probuces the results I am wanting
    Rick Kumer

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