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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Lafayette, NY, USA
    Posts
    21

    Default 8 frame box width

    I am building a couple of sugar feeders for some folks that have 8 frame equipment. I do not have any 8 frame equipment. I also can not find dimensions listed in the catalogs. I even did a search here. Without driving the 20 miles to their place, I dont have access to 8 frame equipment for a measurement. Im sure there may be a little variation here or there between manufacturers but Im sure we can get close enough for the purpose of a 2 inch shim. If there is someone that has 8 frame equipment that can measure the width of their boxes, maybe a couple someones, it would give me the info I need. Thanks,
    Ray

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Skagit, WA, USA
    Posts
    239

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    Had the same problem. No info in catalogs. I DID drive to an outyard. Mann Lake 8 frame measured 14 inches across.
    I don't keep bees, I tend bees. Does this make me a beet?
    Sea level, Puget Sound, USDA 7a-7b

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Fort Gay, WV, USA
    Posts
    1,184

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    Actual commercial equipment from suppliers range from 13 3/4 to 14 inches wide. When I make equipment for people, I tend to just go by the 14 inch outside measurement and go from there. It is made at that width due to being able to put in a 1 gallon frame feeder without loosing your ability to have 8 frames. Personally my 8 frame equipment for myself is designed at a width of 13 1/4 inch as I use hive top feeders and do not need the extra room inside. I give myself an extra 3/4 inch to move frames and that's it.
    Thomas Bartram - 43 - 8 F langs, 22 Italian & 21 Russian

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,710

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    See this earlier thread:

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...e-medium-hives

    In post #6 MB identifies suppliers using different sizes. I'd suggest that you build to match one of the suppliers that you might buy from so that in the future you have a source for matching boxes if you ever decide to buy instead of making your own.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Lafayette, NY, USA
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    Thats a GREAT link. It answers my question. I do think they said their equipment wes from Mann Lake (14") I will make them 14" or maybe play it safe and go with 13 7/8. If they happen to be 13 3/4", for a feeder, they wont be off enough to matter. Im guessing the bees wont care. Thanks to those that repsonded!
    Ray
    23 hives zones 5a and 5b

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,742

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    13 7/8" should fit any of them.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    Can't you call them and ask them to measure for you? Just have them measure the outside dimension of a box side to side across the front. That will save you a trip and you can make exactly what size is needed.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Lafayette, NY, USA
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    If it was anyone else, yes. I think Im safer just getting within an 1/8 of an inch and call it good...but yes that would be the logical way. I will leave it at that.
    Ray
    23 hives zones 5a and 5b

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,742

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    Who's "place"? Betterbee's are 14" wide if that helps... or at least they were last time I looked.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,039

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    > If they happen to be 13 3/4", for a feeder, they wont be off enough to matter. Im guessing the bees wont care.

    Famous last words.

    A 1/4" in a bee spacing can make a big difference with brace and burr comb. A 1/4" to narrow and you won't get that frame feeder in with a sledge hammer.

    I use follower boards in the Mann Lake 8 frames as to not get fat bulging outside combs that later are a mess to move to an inside position. This photo shows the SHB patrolable follower board on the right. It is made of luan paneling with pecan hangers.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,477

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    It's nice to see my mentoring to Ollie has paid off. Now he's commenting and showing photos of his eight frame equipment which I got him started on. Look at you go Ollie!
    President, San Francisco Beekeepers Association
    www.habitatforhoneybees.org

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Morro Bay, California, USA
    Posts
    989

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    14 inch outside will fit 9 frames tight (12.5 net on the inside). On the 8 frame equipment starting with 9 brood frames ensures clean draws on foundationless (and on foundation for equal measure). Once drawn the frames can be spaced to 8 for honey or just to accommodate enough slop to ease manipulation.

    The outside of the 1st and 9th frame is often ignored, and pulling and reversing those two frames (and moving them in to the 3rd and 6th position) when you downsize to 8 frames opens up the brood box enough to avoid swarm response. You use the extra frame drawn from the center of the brood to jumpstart a nuc. It is way easier and more hygenic to "store" extra frames on the colonies than stack them up in the dusty corner of a shop. Having the 9th frame is like joining the "Christmas Club" -- always a ready to go frame bursting with brood when you need one.

    So I vote for 14" -- though you have to bunch the frames toward the center to avoid burr when running just 8. There is even enough slop that frame ears can fall through (off the rabbet) if the boxes are moved when new. I will leave a brad or staple on the rabbet to keep them from sliding side-to-side.

    I build mediums out of dirt-cheap dog-ear fenceboards, the net on these in thickness is 5/8th (incense cedar) or 11/16th (Redwood). Cutting these to 14" makes them even looser, and I cheat down a bit 13 7/8 to avoid the extra slop. Losing the 1/8th on a stack doesn't matter. The foundationless mediums are sold into the hobby beekeeping market as starter hives.
    Last edited by JWChesnut; 11-10-2014 at 02:01 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Lafayette, NY, USA
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    Folks, thank you all for your comments and input BUT Im not making boxes. I am making a sugar feeder. I think Mr Bush picked up on it. I guess I should have given more details. This is just a 2 inch shim with 1/2 inch hardware cloth to hold sugar bricks. It will NOT impact frame spacing in any way. Whether its 13 3/4 or 14 isnt really critical. Its just that I dont have any 8 frame equipment and never have had any. I didnt even have dimensions to get me close. My 10 frame shims might be off by as much as 1/4 inch...ok there is that one that might be off by a little more. Either way, they will hold some sugar and not be off enough to leave an air gap. I guess technically as long as they are within 1 1/2 inches they will serve exactly the same purpose but for the most part, they are within 1/4". I got started wrapping my own hives tonight after work. Its not easy when it gets dark so early. By the way...when it gets dark, stop messing with the bees! Nailed between the fingers. Thats going to itch for 2 days!
    Ray
    23 hives zones 5a and 5b

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: 8 frame box width

    Crap! My reading comprehension is going down the tubes. 2" shims----I got stuck on the words "sugar feeders". 13 3/4" or 14" or 13 7/8", it won't matter a hoot for shims that will end up being used only in the Winter to make room for sugar. I just installed mine today as the weather is going to go downhill very quickly in the next week or so.

    Paul

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