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  1. #41
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    Apr 2009
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    Stilwell, KS
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    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by camero7 View Post
    Problem with the dribble method ....
    and it is messy
    and you have to open the hive
    and you have to apply the dribble at just the right rate



    IMG_1436.jpgIMG_1457.jpg
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  2. #42
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    Apr 2009
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    Stilwell, KS
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    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by jwbee View Post
    I use it as well , it is cheap , easy and effective , especially in cold weather.
    But I am ver carefull to get far away from the hive I am treating until the vapours are dissipated.

    Potential Health Effects
    Eye: May cause severe eye irritation. May result in corneal injury.
    Skin: Causes skin irritation. Harmful if absorbed through the skin. Rare chemical burns may occur from oxalic acid and may cause hypocalcemia. Gangrene has occurred in the hands of people working with oxalic acid solutions without rubber gloves. The skin lesions are characterized by cracking of the skin and the development of slow-healing ulcers. The skin may be bluish in color, and the nails brittle and yellow.
    Ingestion..... .
    The same can be said for gasoline, bleach, furniture stripper, drain cleaner, and many other products that we are exposed to; some on a daily basis.
    I am not saying that OA is completely safe, but all you need is proper safety precautions. Safety glasses, gloves, and a respirator. At least that is what I would recommend to strangers on the internet.

    I only treat 4 hives, so I do not wear a respirator. I have no problems standing 10 feet up-wind when treating the hives. Heck I could probably add a few more feet of wire and sit inside the air-conditioned cab of my truck while treating.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
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    1,789

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    I treated over 50 hives 4X this Aug/Sept. Never wore a respirator, had no problems. Get a whiff once in a while but no coughing or breathing problems. IMO the issue is overblown. Been using it for 4 years now.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    1,379

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Some great discussion here on this method!! I am going to order the OAV tomorrow and look forward to adding it to my arsenal!!

    I do plan on wearing all PPE, including getting a GOOD respirator with cartridges and all and good gloves. It may be safe, but I would rather not take the risk, doesnt cost me anything to wear the stuff after initial purchase!!

    Thanks again to everyone discussing this topic!!......................Jason
    Coyote Creek Bees

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,682

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    I couldn't even see the vapors and I caught a whiff, it wasn't pleasant, I'll leave it at that.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,760

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    guys will use the vapourizor after they have the hives wrapped up for winter, little brood in the nest and the sealed hives makes for a good effective treatment. knock down method, use again in the spring to get a few more,
    dribble works well too, and you dont have to carry around that battery and crack pipe

    the key is to treat without any brood present
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  7. #47
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    Apr 2009
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    Stilwell, KS
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    1,716

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Anyone considering the use of a respirator should be aware that there are several types and brands of respirators. They all come with different cartridge configurations that are not always interchangeable (mechanically speaking). However the biggest thing that you should know is that there are different types of cartridges for different kinds of chemicals that you are working with. For oxalic acid you want a cartridge that is NIOSH approved and is marked OV/AG/HE (Organic Vapors/Acid Gas/ High Efficiency). It should also be marked with the colors purple and yellow (usually stripes or bands). Believe it or not there are over a dozen standard color codes that have been developed. You want to make sure that you get the right one. Yellow = acid gasses and organic vapor, and purple = particulates.

    The worst thing that you can do is enter a hazardous atmosphere thinking that you are protected, but the wrong cartridge. People have died that way.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    1,379

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Nabber good info there, thanks for sharing!
    Coyote Creek Bees

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,236

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    BeeGhost,

    Please insure that your eyes are covered as well. The Oxalic vapor is looking for moisture. It will turn into acid
    if it comes into contact with your eyeball. Not pleasant.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,236

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    CharlieB, You indicated that you are using MAQS now. I kept those bee for 10 yrs with no treatments. You telling me that you have only had them for 3 months and you are killing them already ?

    Fuzzy

  11. #51
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
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    1,379

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    BeeGhost,

    Please insure that your eyes are covered as well. The Oxalic vapor is looking for moisture. It will turn into acid
    if it comes into contact with your eyeball. Not pleasant.
    For sure Fuzzy, I always wear sunglasses and such! My hearing sucks so I've got to rely on my eyesight!
    Coyote Creek Bees

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Casper, Wy, USA
    Posts
    804

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Hi BeeGhost

    Why not try dribbling it? For the cost of a small scale and a few dollars worth of oxalic acid you could safely treat 20 hives forever.

    - no fire danger.
    - no respirator need.
    - accurate dosage is easy to determine and control.
    - minimal equipment needed.

    Dribbling is just a better bet when hives can be opened for treatment.

    I've written a little more about oxalic:

    http://beenaturalguy.com/oxalic-acid-dribbling/

    http://beenaturalguy.com/oxalic-acid-evaporator/

    http://beenaturalguy.com/fire-in-the-hole/

    From my personal experience, I'd only fume them only if they needed treatment and it was too cold to break open the hives for dribbling.

    Regards - Dennis
    I once wrangled bees. But now, knowing better, I just let them bee.
    http://talkingstick.me/category/bees/

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,789

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    My issue with dribbling is that the winter bees have already been born at that point and if the hive has significant varroa then the virus issues arise and the damage to the winter bees has already happened. Vapor is easily done with brood in the hive - just do it for 3 or 4 weeks a week apart. I do agree with Dennis that there is some fire danger. I always worry about the wax catching fire but it's never happened. I have charred the bottom of some frames.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,334

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    CharlieB, You indicated that you are using MAQS now. I kept those bee for 10 yrs with no treatments. You telling me that you have only had them for 3 months and you are killing them already ?

    Fuzzy
    Fuzzy,

    One of your hives was full of mites when I received it and is now gone. Out of respect for your beliefs, I have not treated any of your hives including the one that died. The rest of those hives are doing fine. Still not a bad survival rate.
    President, San Francisco Beekeepers Association
    www.habitatforhoneybees.org

  15. #55
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    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
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    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    BWrangler,

    Ive looked at both the dribble and the vapor treatment and both their pro's and con's. Ive talked to members on here through PM's and also searched a lot of past threads to see peoples experiences with both methods of the treatment.

    The reason I have decided to go with the vapor method is becuase it can be performed more than once a year and is not as harmful to the bees, yet effective. I am going to purchase the JB200 so I dont have to deal with using a torch more than I have too!

    I have looked at your videos, and that little leak from the "Walmart" bottle was scary just reading about it!! There is no way I could afford to light my property owners fields on fire or myself for that matter!!

    Thank you for your advise and for the links you have provided!!

    Jason
    Coyote Creek Bees

  16. #56
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    1,379

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Camero7,

    You have charred the bottom of frames before? Wow!! Just out of curiocity, whats the space between the bottom of the frames and the bottom board? Also, was it a home made vaporizor or something like the JB200?

    Another thing on my mind is this: With the power disconnected, can you dip the end of the vaporizer into some water to cool it faster and then wipe it down afterwords to get ready for the next hive?? It would seem that waiting for the tool to cool down would waste a lot of time? And what temp is it safe to add the oxalic acid crystals back into the vaporizer without having it touch off!!

    Thanks for any answers!!
    Coyote Creek Bees

  17. #57
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,800

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    In those videos of commercial beekeepers I see them spraying the bees with something out of a garden sprayer. What chemical are they spraying?

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,230

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    oxalic acid most likely
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,789

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeGhost View Post
    Camero7,

    You have charred the bottom of frames before? Wow!! Just out of curiocity, whats the space between the bottom of the frames and the bottom board? Also, was it a home made vaporizor or something like the JB200?

    Another thing on my mind is this: With the power disconnected, can you dip the end of the vaporizer into some water to cool it faster and then wipe it down afterwords to get ready for the next hive?? It would seem that waiting for the tool to cool down would waste a lot of time? And what temp is it safe to add the oxalic acid crystals back into the vaporizer without having it touch off!!

    Thanks for any answers!!
    I use the JB200, I use 4 in tandem. Most of my hives have 3/4" space between the bottom board and the frames.

    I use 2 -4 at a time. I've found the smoothest is to only use 2. I run one and fill the other while the first is running. When it has quit smoking, I pull it, dip it into some water [I don't immerse the electrical components just about 3/4 of the bowl]. Pull it out and the residual heat evaporates the water, fill it while the other is running. Repeat. Works fine and is the most efficient method I've developed to date. I can do a 20 hive yard in about am hour and a half.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    1,379

    Default Re: Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions

    Thank you very much Cam!
    Coyote Creek Bees

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