Ok, im going from treatment free to oxalic acid vapor treatment and need opinions!!

[sqkcrk]

Thanks. How does one do that? Maybe I should know in case I am tempted to do it myself.

[FlowerPlanter]

rwurster, I am puzzled as to how your clothes are getting chewed up by the OA , I do not seem to have that problem.

If you use the OA as vapor you shouldn't get any on your clothes, and if its powder just brush it off.
I was wondering that too, maybe just in general that acid is hard on cloth.

[rwurster]

OA fog will stick to you if you're sweating and I tend to walk right through the fog since I have on a respirator. It always chews up the front of my shirt and will start burning my chest after a few hours. I like to do it early in the morning but its usually in the mid 80s at 6 am climbing to 100+ F. I typically treat them after pollination season, in late August, right I have brought them back to the bee yard and after i have removed supers.

[FlowerPlanter]

I am a newbee and have no experience with other methods, but I used Formic Acid (not MAQs) and Honeybee Healthy on a fume board. It costs pennies per hive, the whole treatment takes 24 hrs, but the acid dissapates within 3 hours. Very easy, very cheap, very quick. There is a small risk of having your queen balled, but I had no problem with that and it really knocked the mites down. Outdoor temperature must be at least 60 degrees...the warmer, the better. You can read about it here:
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/
There is also an interesting article about a Honeybee Health drench in such a high concentration, the bees won't take it as a syrup. Supposed to really boost up your bees. I drenched them twice this fall and will repeat early spring. We'll see how good that works this spring.

OA might be cheaper. Out door temp does not matter much. Treatment take 3 min, hive is left sealed for 15min. nothing left in the hive. No problems with queens. OA is already found in honey a few PPM.


Here some info on many natural miticides and OA

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-...ral-miticides/

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxal...-1-of-2-parts/

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxal...-2-of-2-parts/

[Andrew Dewey]

Is there no one concerned that OA is not approved as a miticide in the US?

[mmiller]

Is there no one concerned that OA is not approved as a miticide in the US?

Depends on its use. If your "bleaching your top bars" there is no issue.

[Andrew Dewey]

Depends on its use. If your "bleaching your top bars" there is no issue.

Doesn't pass the straight face test, hence the probable reason for your smiley face.

There seems to be a lot of talk regarding the purity of honey these days. Bee Inspectors have far too much on their plates to be concerned about a bit of OA but I can imagine a time, in the not-to-distant future, where concentrations of OA in honey deviant from normal will be looked at.

[mmiller]

Doesn't pass the straight face test, hence the probable reason for your smiley face.

There seems to be a lot of talk regarding the purity of honey these days. Bee Inspectors have far too much on their plates to be concerned about a bit of OA but I can imagine a time, in the not-to-distant future, where concentrations of OA in honey deviant from normal will be looked at.

So you saw me grinning did you?

The folks I know using OA are using the dribble method during winter (broodless) period. Since there are no honey supers in place, concentrations in honey would not be a problem. Now, the folks using the vapor with honey supers in place might make a good point. Interesting thought.

Mike

[Michael B]

Problem with the dribble method is that you can only do it once/year and need to wait until the hive is broodless. This means that your winter bees won't be as strong if you have high mite loads. I have used the OA vapor 4X a week apart with no noticeable bee reactions. That being said, I think my OA vapor did not work as well this August/September as it has in the past. No hives lost but several appeared on the verge of collapse when checked in November.

Cam,

I vaporized my hives for the first time this November. I have dribbled in the past. In your experience, the vaporizing is safe with brood in the hive? What about during a flow or with supers on? When do you typically look the treat your hives?

Thanks

[WWW]

I do not apply OAV with the supers on, I find it is best to begin treatment after the supers are pulled around the last week in August allowing the bees a few more brood cycles before winter sets in.

I do not know of anyone who treats with OAV when honey supers are still on the hive.

[Mike Gillmore]

Is there no one concerned that OA is not approved as a miticide in the US?

I'm concerned that it's not approved. I'm concerned that our government refuses to approve a mite treatment which has been safely used world-wide for over a decade, simply because there is no way for anyone to exploit and market it as a "new technology". Wood Bleach being a common hardware store item ... well, you know what I mean.

[rwurster]

Ditto that.

[BeeGhost]

Is there no one concerned that OA is not approved as a miticide in the US?

I am not concerned about it because it is accepted in other countries that are not classified as third world countries, and of course based on what Mr.Gillmore stated. There are a lot of things that are not approved in this country due to the mighty dollar.

In all honesty, don't you think that there really is a cure for cancer and other major illnesses? I believe there is, and it's probably something simple and inexpensive from some plant in the middle of S. America, but the medical industry/insurance companies would lose a fortune. I mean, how many billions of dollars have been spent on cancer research and the best they can come up with is chemo and radiation?

If those that have used OAV have not experienced brood die off, then how unsafe can it be? If bees don't die from it then it seems safe to me as well.

What I don't get is if we breath it, it knocks your socks off, or so I've heard anyhow, yet bees don't die from it? Can someone explain this to a simple person like me?

[jean-marc]

BeeGhost:

I'll keep it simple. Bees are bees and people are people. Oxalic vapours are very harsh on lungs and bees can handle oxalic acid vapours.

Jean-Marc

[Daniel Y]

BeeGhost, Don't know that I can explain it. I do know I've gotten just a whiff of the stuff and almost feel bad for my bees when treating them. They don't come rushing out of the hive when I open it after though.

As for the Cancer thing. There are actually several they do have a cure for. In relatively recent years many researchers and labs have started working together. This has been made possible by such things as the internet and cell phones, live video etc. Cancer treatment is considered to be on a fast track. We will see what it results in. I do have one little saying I always keep in the back of my mind. Not everything can be fixed.

I do agree with the AO thing though. Sometimes the U.S. can learn things from others.

[sqkcrk]

Maybe it doesn't need regulating as a miticide. Maybe you should be thankful. AFAIK there are no regulations against using OA. Why do you want them? Does everything have to be approved for use?

[camero7]

Cam,

I vaporized my hives for the first time this November. I have dribbled in the past. In your experience, the vaporizing is safe with brood in the hive? What about during a flow or with supers on? When do you typically look the treat your hives?

Thanks

I have never had brood loss with OA vapor. I pull my supers before treating. I start treating in late August for 4 weeks, once a week. I have treated during the fall flow with no problems. I am getting the hives ready for winter when I treat and all honey collected then is left for the winter. It's quick, cheap and easy.

[Mike Gillmore]

You're right Mark, the last thing we need is more government regulations. It would be nice though if the EPA would add it to the exemption list, as they have with some essential oils. But for now I'm happy to let the sleeping dog lie.

[sqkcrk]

And formic acid too?

[jwbee]

I use it as well , it is cheap , easy and effective , especially in cold weather.
But I am ver carefull to get far away from the hive I am treating until the vapours are dissipated.

Potential Health Effects
Eye: May cause severe eye irritation. May result in corneal injury.
Skin: Causes skin irritation. Harmful if absorbed through the skin. Rare chemical burns may occur from oxalic acid and may cause hypocalcemia. Gangrene has occurred in the hands of people working with oxalic acid solutions without rubber gloves. The skin lesions are characterized by cracking of the skin and the development of slow-healing ulcers. The skin may be bluish in color, and the nails brittle and yellow.
Ingestion: Oxalic acid is toxic because of its acidic and chelating properties. It is especially toxic when ingested. As little as 5 grams (71 mg/kg) may be fatal. Ulcerations of the mouth, vomiting of blood, and rapid appearance of shock, convulsions, twitching, tetany, and cardiovascular collapse may occur following ingestion of oxalic acid or its soluble salts. Oxalic acid can bind calcium to form calcium oxalate which is insoluble at physiological pH. Calcium oxalate thus formed might precipitate in the kidney tubules and the brain. Hypocalcemia secondary to calcium oxalate formation might disturb the function of the heart and nerves.
Inhalation: Inhalation of oxalic acid produces irritation of the respiratory tract, ulceration of the mucous membranes, headaches, nervousness, cough, vomiting, emaciation, back pain (due to kidney injury), and weakness.
Chronic: Inhalation of oxalic acid dust or mist over a long period of time might result in weight loss and respiratory tract inflammation. Rats administered oxalic acid at 2.5 and 5% in the diet for 70 days developed depressed thyroid function and weight loss. A study of railroad car cleaners in Norway who were heavily exposed to oxalic acid solutions and vapors revealed a 53% prevalence of urolithiasis (the formation of urinary stones), compared to a rate of 12% among unexposed workers from the same company.