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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    AUBURN IN.
    Posts
    93

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    odfrank--with many years in the hive what do you use for foundation

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    5,038

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    I'm too fat to fit in a hive....
    I use frames with grooved top and bottom bars, horizontally wired with vertical wired foundation. I have some foundationless frames interspersed in my honey supers for cut comb. I do not use plastic frames or foundation but see that bees are accepting some of the more recent ones on the market. I am in an area with a long slow flow which makes for poorly drawn plastic foundation. I have been using a stock-pile of 30 year old foundation which precedes toxic mite pesticides. I am not to concerned about contamination in new foundation as I doubt damaging amounts survive the temperatures of melting wax. Me and my bees are probably exposed to much more worrisome pesticides in our daily lives than is probably in foundation.
    This summer I am going to venture into Warre hives for a client.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Could anyone suggest me anything from Mann Lake Ltd? http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepin...es/page16.html

    Mr. Beeman, I couldn't find what you mentioned.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,708

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshC1021 View Post
    Mr. Beeman, I couldn't find what you mentioned.
    See page 21, towards the bottom, "Duragilt":

    http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepin...es/page21.html
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Isn't it that duragilt has bad reviews from beekeepers?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Winhall, VT
    Posts
    1,066

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Duragilt. NOOOOOOOO
    Raising Vermont Bees one mistake at a time.
    USDA Zone 5A

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,178

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshC1021 View Post
    Isn't it that duragilt has bad reviews from beekeepers?
    I found a lot of negative comments. I also found a fair number that where not. Every product will have negative reviews. So it depends on what you consider bad reviews. It has it's negatives. One that no comb is embossed on it. This would lend toward those that want the bees to determine cell size. sounds like they need a way to get the bees to build on it if the wax coating comes off and to improve it's ability to be extracted. Of course I am not sure why you would extract brood comb and that seems to me to be it's strong point. natural cell size on plastic foundation looks to be the angle to me.

    Keep in mind that it has been around a long time. that in itself is something of a review of it's own. It could be that it is a tool and when properly used it works well. when you use a screwdriver as a pry bar. don't complain when it gets damaged.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Winhall, VT
    Posts
    1,066

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    It has it's negatives. One that no comb is embossed on it.
    Yes, it has comb embossed on it.

    Raising Vermont Bees one mistake at a time.
    USDA Zone 5A

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    668

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshC1021 View Post
    I wanted to know the advantages & disadvantages of frames with foundation versus the empty frames where the bees would fill it with their own...
    Foundation: can be ignored, even in the brood nest.
    Foundationless: won't be ignored if placed in or beside the brood nest.

    I have often used a short strip of foundation along the top of the frame. You can cut the foundation into four strips. It sets a good guide for them to draw out the rest of the frame. Also allows them to build the amount drone cells at the bottom that they are happy with. (So no need for an excluder.)

    Best of both worlds.

    Also makes the foundation go a lot further, 4 x more frames!

    Matthew Davey

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    would an all plastic frame work fine? Do I need to have a layer of wax on it?

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,742

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Empty frames will not work. Frames with comb guides and no foundation will work. Frames with foundation will work.

    http://bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,622

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Quote Originally Posted by Keth Comollo View Post
    Duragilt. NOOOOOOOO
    I bought a few hundred unassembled medium boxes and frames this fall that a gentleman had stored in his garage for years. He also had Duragilt to go with the frames. I told him I wasnt really interested in buying the Duragilt. Before I left he said "hey, how about I just give you the Duragilt". I thought for a moment and then said "I don't want to offend you but I would probably just throw it away, if you want me to get rid of it for you I will take it otherwise no thanks" I dont know what he decided to do with it.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Please do yourself a favor, and use Mann Lakes RiteCell plastic foundation. I love it, and I have tried all the other types of all the foundations, and RiteCell always comes out ahead, in my opinion.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Should I get the ones with a coating of wax or not? Plus there's the task of assembling it with the frame, how do I go about that?

  15. #35
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Yes, get the wax-coated RiteCell. Assembled the frames without the foundation, and the pop it into the frame by placing it in the top bar groove and then flex the other edge in.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,178

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Changed my mind
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Westchester NY
    Posts
    239

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    Duraguilt is wretched--it is from a time before they had plastic embossed foundation, and so now is obsolete. The only reason it is still made is because beekeepers are a stubborn lot, and some that started with it continue to use it because of tradition more than anything else (or fear to try a new product!)
    http://www.peekskillnurseries.com
    Specialists in Ground Cover plants since 1937. Talk to me about ground-covers!

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,789

    Default Re: Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

    I use wax-coated Plasticell frames from Dadant. If you ever have to clean up a wooden frame with plastic foundation in it after a wax moth catastrophe you will understand why.

    And I use foundationless frames - plain wooden frame, 4 strings of 20 lb test fishing line run horizontally across. When I load a 10 frame box I put in 8 plasticell, 2 foundationless. Gradually building up a stock of foundationless comb.

    If it will stand up to Texas heat, and it did, in a near-record summer, I'm happy. Gradually I hope to use less plasticell and more bee-drawn comb, but my bees are drawing everything out.

    Thinking about a Warre or Top Bar for fun, but probably better deal with the goat first.

    Gypsi
    Stuck in Texas. Learning Permaculture in drought, guess I will teach permaculture in drought. The bees are still alive.

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