Frames w/ foundation vs. empty frames

[allniter]

odfrank--with many years in the hive what do you use for foundation

[odfrank]

I'm too fat to fit in a hive....
I use frames with grooved top and bottom bars, horizontally wired with vertical wired foundation. I have some foundationless frames interspersed in my honey supers for cut comb. I do not use plastic frames or foundation but see that bees are accepting some of the more recent ones on the market. I am in an area with a long slow flow which makes for poorly drawn plastic foundation. I have been using a stock-pile of 30 year old foundation which precedes toxic mite pesticides. I am not to concerned about contamination in new foundation as I doubt damaging amounts survive the temperatures of melting wax. Me and my bees are probably exposed to much more worrisome pesticides in our daily lives than is probably in foundation.
This summer I am going to venture into Warre hives for a client.

[JoshC1021]

Could anyone suggest me anything from Mann Lake Ltd? http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepin...es/page16.html

Mr. Beeman, I couldn't find what you mentioned.

[Rader Sidetrack]

Mr. Beeman, I couldn't find what you mentioned.

See page 21, towards the bottom, "Duragilt":

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepin...es/page21.html

[JoshC1021]

Isn't it that duragilt has bad reviews from beekeepers?

[Keth Comollo]

Duragilt. NOOOOOOOO

[Daniel Y]

Isn't it that duragilt has bad reviews from beekeepers?

I found a lot of negative comments. I also found a fair number that where not. Every product will have negative reviews. So it depends on what you consider bad reviews. It has it's negatives. One that no comb is embossed on it. This would lend toward those that want the bees to determine cell size. sounds like they need a way to get the bees to build on it if the wax coating comes off and to improve it's ability to be extracted. Of course I am not sure why you would extract brood comb and that seems to me to be it's strong point. natural cell size on plastic foundation looks to be the angle to me.

Keep in mind that it has been around a long time. that in itself is something of a review of it's own. It could be that it is a tool and when properly used it works well. when you use a screwdriver as a pry bar. don't complain when it gets damaged.

[Keth Comollo]

It has it's negatives. One that no comb is embossed on it.

Yes, it has comb embossed on it.

[MattDavey]

I wanted to know the advantages & disadvantages of frames with foundation versus the empty frames where the bees would fill it with their own...

Foundation: can be ignored, even in the brood nest.
Foundationless: won't be ignored if placed in or beside the brood nest.

I have often used a short strip of foundation along the top of the frame. You can cut the foundation into four strips. It sets a good guide for them to draw out the rest of the frame. Also allows them to build the amount drone cells at the bottom that they are happy with. (So no need for an excluder.)

Best of both worlds.

Also makes the foundation go a lot further, 4 x more frames!

Matthew Davey

[JoshC1021]

would an all plastic frame work fine? Do I need to have a layer of wax on it?

[Michael Bush]

Empty frames will not work. Frames with comb guides and no foundation will work. Frames with foundation will work.

http://bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

[jim lyon]

Duragilt. NOOOOOOOO

I bought a few hundred unassembled medium boxes and frames this fall that a gentleman had stored in his garage for years. He also had Duragilt to go with the frames. I told him I wasnt really interested in buying the Duragilt. Before I left he said "hey, how about I just give you the Duragilt". I thought for a moment and then said "I don't want to offend you but I would probably just throw it away, if you want me to get rid of it for you I will take it otherwise no thanks" I dont know what he decided to do with it.

[westernbeekeeper]

Please do yourself a favor, and use Mann Lakes RiteCell plastic foundation. I love it, and I have tried all the other types of all the foundations, and RiteCell always comes out ahead, in my opinion.

[JoshC1021]

Should I get the ones with a coating of wax or not? Plus there's the task of assembling it with the frame, how do I go about that?

[westernbeekeeper]

Yes, get the wax-coated RiteCell. Assembled the frames without the foundation, and the pop it into the frame by placing it in the top bar groove and then flex the other edge in.

[Daniel Y]

Changed my mind

[xcugat]

Duraguilt is wretched--it is from a time before they had plastic embossed foundation, and so now is obsolete. The only reason it is still made is because beekeepers are a stubborn lot, and some that started with it continue to use it because of tradition more than anything else (or fear to try a new product!)

[Gypsi]

I use wax-coated Plasticell frames from Dadant. If you ever have to clean up a wooden frame with plastic foundation in it after a wax moth catastrophe you will understand why.

And I use foundationless frames - plain wooden frame, 4 strings of 20 lb test fishing line run horizontally across. When I load a 10 frame box I put in 8 plasticell, 2 foundationless. Gradually building up a stock of foundationless comb.

If it will stand up to Texas heat, and it did, in a near-record summer, I'm happy. Gradually I hope to use less plasticell and more bee-drawn comb, but my bees are drawing everything out.

Thinking about a Warre or Top Bar for fun, but probably better deal with the goat first.

Gypsi