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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Ben, Ive been there too.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    I did a check using the oven method and a sample of the wood. (weigh sample, bake in the oven for many hours - re-weigh, etc) I found it to be about 14% MC. Seems just about perfect given the information on this thread...

    I'll probably begin cranking them out right after Christmas.

    Adam

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Little View Post
    but i did put it in a building and stick piled it .
    Be careful. If it is green there has to be air movement. Open building is OK. Closed building and you could have growth problems. Watch for mold and fungus.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Foster Collins View Post
    I found it to be about 14% MC.
    Did you go one step further and measure before and after? That shrink rate could be used to confirm that the lumber they baked is about 14%. Unlikely that most people will have an accurate balance to do it your way.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Do a little homework on what part of a log a 1x would even be cut from. Then do a bit more homework on where the highest quality wood is cut from in a log. and you will find that 1X is cut from the lowest quality wood. even the best crap is still crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I doubt that, I see the wood that comes into my box maker. Its premium wood, and special ordered. The good cuts off those logs are not being set aside, they are being sent to him. Not like he is ordering maple or oak, he is ordering pine, and specifically eastern white pine because of its many qualities wanted by beekeepers. Ease to work with, light weight, cost comparisons, durability and so on.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Daniel Y.... Don't take this wrong, I am asking a serious question, because I do not know the answer. In order to get an 11 inch board, you would not be getting wood from the outside would you? Would you not have to get into the center of most of the logs to get a 1 X 11. What type boards or whatever do the mills typically cut the best wood into (2 x 10, 2 X 4 ). Enlighten me and I won't have to do the homework. HA!!!

    The mill where I get my pine starts getting 1 X 3 on the outside, then as he goes in he gets 1 X 6, then he gets to where he can make 1 X 11. I always thought the absolute center of the log was the least quality.

    cchoganjr

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    I always thought the absolute center of the log was the least quality.

    cchoganjr
    I am not very good at detecting someone else's sarcasm. The center of the log would be the same as quarter sawn.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    What?! Quarter sawn has to do with the direction the wood is cut, not the part of the log it comes from. Please Ace.
    Last edited by Barry; 12-19-2012 at 06:11 PM.
    Regards, Barry

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    The center of the log would be the same as quarter sawn.
    Wrong. And that is not sarcasm!

    Here's an explanation of quarter sawing from a wood products industry expert:
    Quartersawing – this method produces high-quality, stable and often aesthetically pleasing lumber (with an attractive grain pattern). The objective is to have the growth rings approximately 45 to 90 degrees to the face of the board. Boards sawn with growth rings within 10% to the perpendicular of the board face are said to be fully quartersawn (Figure 3) or rift-sawn (Figure 4).

    http://www.ont-woodlot-assoc.org/sw_...cepts_pt1.html
    If you want more info, there are diagrams (as referenced in the quote) showing various sawing techniques, along with descriptions at the link above.

    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Sorry Radar, late again.
    Regards, Barry

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Acebird....No sarcasm here... And you and Daniel Y are way out of my league when it comes to milling logs. I don't know the first thing about it. Heck, I don't even know what quarter sawn is. (Bye the way, what is it?)

    I know years ago they laid a log on the sled and it went back and forth through a fixed circular blade. Today, all the mills I do business with use a band saw and turn the log after each cut. That gives you narrow boards until you get into the center portion of the log.

    I'm out of this one. I have already told you more than I know, and I don't want to display my ignorance any more.

    EDITED TO ADD....... GUESS I WAS TYPING WHILE YOU WERE EXPLAINING QUARTER SAW.

    cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 12-19-2012 at 06:02 PM. Reason: question answered while i was typing

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    I always thought the absolute center of the log was the least quality.
    Not every wood industry sawyer saws logs the same way, but here is one that agrees with Cleo:

    Not shown in the preceding series of pictures, but continuing, the sawyer rotates the log through 90 once more and takes one more plank off, then rotates the log a final time through 180 and cuts off one last board leaving a boxed heart or cant 6" square (last picture, above right). This heart wood(center) of the tree is low grade material for a variety of reasons. It contains the pith, cracks, and many knots from early in the tree’s life. The boxed heart goes for pallet material and other low grade wood needs.

    http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/...les_809c.shtml
    The are lots of photos and clear descriptions of decisions made in the course of sawing a log at the link above.

    Note that the link I provided is describing hardwood sawing, where as bee boxes may or may not be made from softwood.
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 12-19-2012 at 06:20 PM.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Hey Barry, I'm pedaling as fast as I can!

    Our posts have identical timestamps, but yours precedes mine, so I guess you did beat me. But, I had to find a decent link to support my statements.



    I sure like animated icons!
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    What?! Quarter sawn has to do with the direction the wood is cut, not the part of the log it comes from. Please Ace.
    OK Barry show me what you know...
    The purpose of quarter sawn lumber is to get the annular rings perpendicular to the face of the board. Now explain to me what happens when you slab a board off from the center of the log. I will do it for you. If you rip this board down the center you will have the best 2 pieces from a quarter sawn log. The annular rings get less perpendicular as you move away form center.
    Do you need a diagram?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    OK Barry show me what you know...

    Do you need a diagram?
    Here's a diagram Ace...

    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    OK, Barry, I see Ace needs more instruction. Or something else perhaps ..... maybe there's an appropriate stick somewhere over by the mill.

    I tried, but this is getting tiresome.



    It might be time to re-post some of those top 10 famous Ace quotes, like perhaps holding down hives in a hurricane with a bucket of water, or logs from trees of the same species grown close to each other are identical, or ......
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 12-19-2012 at 07:18 PM.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Do a little homework . . . . and you will find that 1X is cut from the lowest quality wood. even the best crap is still crap.
    I guess I dont think of this wood as being crap.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    1X can be cut from anywhere in the log...it all depends on what the sawyer wants or need to fill an order. When sawing to grade the sawyer will usually pull off a few 1X4 or 1X6 from the exterior to see what they have to work with before beginning rotation or changing up thickness. But as Cleo points out, you obviously can not yield a 1X10 from those initial skim cuts.

    Actually, the wood on the outside of the log is usually of the highest quality from the perspective of defect free, straight grain, least prone to cupping (with the exception of quartersawn). It commonly has a great deal of sapwood in it which can be considered defect for some applications such as color or rot resistance.

    Ace is quite right (on this one), when sawing a log "through and through" without rotating, the 2-4 cuts closest to the center yield boards of quartersawn grain.....these logs have not been quartersawn which is a much more involved process that yields all of the lumber with that grain orientation but has a great deal of labor and high wastage.

    Radar, the type of sawing you described is sawing to grade. It is most commonly performed on hardwoods (as you noted) and high value logs. It is slow in that the sawyer must constantly make decisions and choices to produce the most high quality(high value) material from any given log. I really doubt any mill filling commercial orders for 1X pine is sawing thier logs to grade. they are sawing through and through or cutting cants and ripping those down and then sorting the material by grade on the tailing end of the mill.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by windfall View Post
    ... I really doubt any mill filling commercial orders for 1X pine is sawing thier logs to grade. they are sawing through and through or cutting cants and ripping those down and then sorting the material by grade on the tailing end of the mill.
    I agree with you. But also someone sawing 1X pine as described is not interested in quartersawn wood.

    Ace's original comment of:
    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    The center of the log would be the same as quarter sawn.
    is still wrong, though, without the addition of significant qualifications or exceptions. His later post referred to cutting the middle board into two pieces. Once that is done, those smaller boards are not from the center of the log anymore, they are from one side of the center. Refer to the diagram posted by BC.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Moisture content of wood and building boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Do you need a diagram?
    Nope, BC already posted one. Look at it.
    Regards, Barry

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