Finally extracted our honey

[beemandan]

What I don't like are the responses which come across to me as bullying, quite nasty. ACe is often at the receiving end of such comments.

max2 (and Sergey), would you take a minute and tell me which of my comments came across to you as bullying, quite nasty with Ace on the receiving end? I often don't have much patience with Ace but don't picture my posts to him as bullying or nasty. In this thread I found it surprising that he chose to risk losing two hives to starvation for a gallon of honey each. And I found it even more surprising that he didn't seem troubled about it. I expect I would have questioned the motives of any beekeeper who did the same.
I'm not looking for a fight...just trying to understand how/why my posts here were offensive to you and Sergey.

[Acebird]

My only concern was his statement that he probably took too much honey from two of his hives and that they might not survive because of it. And I asked him why he did it.
Ace, in my opinion, has a history of disputing advice offered by other (not necessarily me) experienced, well meaning beekeepers. So, when he suggested that people do the opposite of that advice…it explained a lot to me. And I said so.

Every thing you said was clear to me except one thing. Why do you take my observations as gospel? If any one of you experts were looking at my hives and gave me advice do you think I would completely ignore it? I have three different hives. Not one looks like the other. The test of time will give me more knowledge than I have today.
Many of the experts quote the words of a newbie's observation as gospel. Personally, I think that is about a 35% chance of being correct.
It may not be apparent by my actions but trust me I am a good listener.
I cringe when I see new people build up so fast. Two or three years into it they got 20 - 40 hives and they haven't even tested the negatives. You need to know what failure looks like or you will be heading right for it.

[beemandan]

Why do you take my observations as gospel?

I'm not sure I understand this. Maybe this is the problem you and I sometimes have. Since I have nothing else to rely on, I probably do take you at your word in an absolute sense. In such a public forum, I believe we are judged by our statements and often an exaggeration may be mistaken as gospel. Is that what you mean?
I would add...in this particular thread where you clearly hoped to showcase (rightfully) your homemade extractor, why did you include the comment about taking too much honey? It seemed to me to be, whether intentional or not, a comment that was certain to evoke a negative response.

[beemandan]

If any one of you experts

PS Ace....I don't consider myself an expert on beekeeping ....or much else for that matter.

[Acebird]

why did you include the comment about taking too much honey? It seemed to me to be, whether intentional or not, a comment that was certain to evoke a negative response.

You are absolutely right, I shouldn't have. The sorry thing is I knew I would get blasted eventually for only getting 33 pounds off from three hives so it was a half hearted excuse. I apologize for putting it in but deep down I am sure it would have come up.
Nothing I say about being a beekeeper or how to be a beekeeper is gospel. Only my beliefs may be gospel and even that isn't 100%

[Rader Sidetrack]

The sorry thing is I knew I would get blasted eventually for only getting 33 pounds off from three hives so it was a half hearted excuse.

There is nothing wrong with getting only 33 lbs of honey from 3 hives. If i recall correctly, you split one hive into 3 those three hives in 2012. I am not an expert, but splitting is generally considered to result in lower honey production. If you were feeling defensive about the amount of honey harvested, you could have included a comment about splitting those hives.

For the record, I have three hives also. And I did not harvest any honey from those hives, although I am hoping that there is some left in the spring to harvest. And I don't feel I need to justify my harvest decisions to anyone.

[beemandan]

The sorry thing is I knew I would get blasted eventually for only getting 33 pounds off from three hives so it was a half hearted excuse. I apologize for putting it in but deep down I am sure it would have come up.

I don't understand this. Why would someone 'blast' you for only getting 33lbs? I have had entire yards (10 -15) of established hives that didn't produce any surplus at all in a season. I got absolutely zip from them. If someone 'blasted' me for not harvesting them into starvation.....I simply can't imagine it.
Anyway...enough already. I'm sure that we will disagree on things in the future but I'll try to interpret your comments in a less absolute sense and I hope you will try to make them sound less so.

[Rader Sidetrack]

The sorry thing is I knew I would get blasted ....

Ace, in my opinion, the reason that you might get blasted is not for the specific comment you made about the quantity of honey you harvested. The reason, IMHO, is that you have established a pattern of making unpleasant (see below) comments yourself, and as the phrase goes, "Paybacks are a .....". Here is a good example:

Cynthia, Cynthia, Cynthia, you got one hive. It is either going to make it or is not. If you keep screwing with it, it will not make it and you won't have a clue what to do next year. If you treat it like a puppy it might survive because bees are more resourceful than a puppy. It is too late for beekeeping micromanaging.

Note that Cynthia being addressed was a new member (currently 6 posts) and didn't deserve such a nasty response, simply for asking for advice. You can see the quote in full context by clicking the blue arrow in the quote box.

(BY unpleasant, as used above, I am including misleading or wrong, ill-advised, insulting, etc comments.)

[Acebird]

Not a big harvest this year but I aggressively split the one hive that made it through the 2011-2012 winter a couple of times and ended up with three active hives.

I did Rader...

[Acebird]

Note that Cynthia being addressed was a new member (currently 6 posts) and didn't deserve such a nasty response, simply for asking for advice.

To me it is not a nasty response. To me it gets steered into a flair of nastyness by outside commentators looking to push it that way. I think many experts will agree that most newbies tend to micromanage their colonies in the beginning. I was trying to get her to see what she was doing.

Not that any of this belongs in this thread but you have a tendency for attacking people not just myself. You mix up threads cutting and pasting quotes from other threads that don't even have any relevancy. So exactly what are your motives? Are you jockeying for Barry's position on the forum?

[mgolden]

Need to often pinch myself and not respond as I know it is likely not worth my time and energy. But here goes -

Can i ask how ?80 of the above post contribute to beekeeping. It takes up space that could be much more productive.

Ace, I find many of your far too numerous posts as tactless, blunt, thoughtless, ?deliberately antagonistic, uninformed opinion, inexperienced, etc. This is how I perceive many of your posts.

And as I said earlier, it is hard not to respond but I do not as I don't want to waste my energy and realize it is next to impossible for me to make the issue go away.

[Barry]

Ah oh, now it's 81!

[Rader Sidetrack]

To me it gets steered into a flair of nastyness by outside commentators looking to push it that way.

OK, I am stumped here. What are outside commentators? You have to be a member of Beesource to post a response, unless I am missing something here. Which Beesource members are on the outside?

[Rader Sidetrack]

I did Rader...

Oops I overlooked that. My error. I apologize for my oversight.

I guess there really is value in taking the time to research and post quotes so there is no mistake.

[BeeCurious]

I just visited the thread over on Beemaster... Interesting.

I didn't know that before being placed in the bottom of his extractor, Acebird's ceiling fan motor was sitting in a dumpster.

[Rader Sidetrack]

Not that any of this belongs in this thread but you have a tendency for attacking people not just myself.

There are only two Beesource members that I respond to in what you are referring to an "attack". You are one of those, and a member whose handle starts with D and ends with Y is the other. Both of you regularly post outrageous comments, and as many members have learned, posting corrections to your misinformation simply does not work. So, my approach is to allow you to hang yourself with your own words.

What is the problem with quoting your own words? Don't you believe that comments you wrote earlier are still correct? Or were they wrong the first time around?

Are you jockeying for Barry's position on the forum?

Put you tinfoil hat back on Ace. Barry is the site owner, and has an interest in how Beesource is perceived by members. My personal interest is also in having Beesource remain a place where reasonable members are comfortable voicing a reasonable opinion, in response to a reasonable comment or question, free the kind of nasty condesending, unhelpful comments you made to Cynthia (see above).

If you aren't interesting posting reasonable comments, then I will continue to highlight your point of view by dredging up your past dirty laundry and posting it for all to see. Your choice.

[JRG13]

I just visited the thread over on Beemaster... Interesting.

I didn't know that before being placed in the bottom of his extractor, Acebird's ceiling fan motor was sitting in a dumpster.

And this surprises you? You know Ace spends nothing on his bees already. I think it came out alright, not that I would ever use it as I have higher standards for my equipment, but it got the job done.

[Acebird]

My personal interest is also in having Beesource remain a place where reasonable members are comfortable voicing a reasonable opinion, in response to a reasonable comment or question,

I can see your helping ...

Here is an idea for you. Copy and paste all my quotes in your threads so you can have all the same fun and don't trash my threads. It will be the same quotes won't it?

What are we up to now Barry 87?

[Acebird]

I think it came out alright, not that I would ever use it as I have higher standards for my equipment, but it got the job done.

Would it impress you if I had made it with a hermedically sealed motor, all 318 stainless steel #4 polish, with medical grade aseptic fittings for 6000 dollars. I could easily meet or exceed your standards but most beekeepers that I have met are pretty frugal. I am not trying to meet anybody's standards but judging from some initial remarks in this tread I met a few others.

Beemaster has the prototype photos. I did not post the upgrades there. I am sure the bouncers got the word around and drew them to this site.
(Rader, I'm trying to help Barry out)

[JRG13]

Ace,

I'm not knocking ur work, but when I get a piece of equipment, I have standards it must meet. I don't want to have to fiddle with it and take extra time messing with it to get it to work as efficiently as I want it too. I'm not frugal when it comes to my hobbies, I want equipment that will last and is reliable and works well. Chopping up a used plastic container and dismantling a ceiling fan just doesn't cut it for me. I'm happy to go out and spend money at Mann Lake or wherever so they can continue to support my needs in the future. I see this mentality all the time, buy cheap, buy similar stuff at Walmart, then complain when local XYZ store for you hobby closes it's doors or has reduced inventory. I may treat it as a business one year, do you think if I show up with a chopped up plastic barrel and ceiling fan motor they will have a high opinion of my operation when I extract honey at their site for them or want to see how it's done?

If you did build one that way, I would be impressed. It would show me you actually care about your work and take it to that level rather than pulling junk out of a dumpster to build it, but maybe that's just me. That being said, I'm giving/already gave you kudos for building that and it working as well as it did. You always tout your engineering background, I would expect you to do better than following a basic plan and making more improvements than what I saw is maybe why I'm being somewhat critical.