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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
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    3,594

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Perhaps you should read your posts Acebird.

    "bears"?
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,463

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    show me what your machine looks like.
    Like this Ace

    Regards, Barry

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    953

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    What Ace meant was BEARERS.
    Looking at Barry's mill; it does not have bearers.
    Bearers are typically installed on such mills and rotary presses.
    What you would see are narrow cylinders about 1/2" wide on each side of both die cylinders. They would be just slightly larger in diameter than the working cylinders to either prevent them from touching or to actually set the thickness.
    Bearers are really good also for preventing bounce when the rolls are in operation.
    I'm guesssing that instead of bearers, Barry's machine limits daylight height by elevator stops.
    That is O.K. for this application, but in super-duper accurate applications, bearers are preferred because with stops you still have bearing play etc. When cylinder bearers meet and slightly loaded, the resulting nip is absolute.
    Aren't you glad you picked on Ace?
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
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    3,594

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Aren't you glad you picked on Ace?
    Acebird is incapable of correcting a post, it's nice to have someone explain what he intended to communicate.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,463

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    OK, here is my actual mill. And no, I won't be doing anything to it that requires disassembly.


    http://www.beesource.com/imgs/barry/mill2.jpg
    Regards, Barry

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,463

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    It's just as I thought, the 55mm across 10 (5.5 cell width) is measuring the direction that stretching can happen. So I think it's safe to say that 5.0 was the foundation size in the late 1800's.

    http://www.beesource.com/imgs/barry/mill3.jpg
    Last edited by Barry; 12-16-2012 at 05:13 PM.
    Regards, Barry

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    953

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    OK, here is my actual mill.
    SWWEEEEEEEEEET!!

    How hot do you have to get the plastic before milling?
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,201

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    What!!? Harry. U being funny?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,549

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    OK, here is my actual mill. And no, I won't be doing anything to it that requires disassembly.
    Nice Barry, now could I have a pic where I can see the tooling? Yes Harry, you got it bearers, but most people I know shorten it to bears. It doesn't matter if there are bearers or not if the rolls are geared then the gearing will determine if the resulting impression is larger or small that the physical size of the tooling in the direction of the web.
    Now I can see it. this is a better pic for what we are discussing.
    http://www.beesource.com/imgs/barry/mill3.jpg
    no bearers here the top and bottom tool are mated together by the pattern of the hex. The oversize might be an attempt to handle slippage. I suspect the web grows in this application.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    5,999

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Great to here you speaking on something that IS your feild Ace. I have supreme confidence in your opinion on the matter!
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,463

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    So Ace, you're agreeing that the machining on the rolls are probably 5.0 all directions but the 5.5 one is due to the slippage/stretching?
    Regards, Barry

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,549

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    So Ace, you're agreeing that the machining on the rolls are probably 5.0 all directions but the 5.5 one is due to the slippage/stretching?
    It is either that or they had to fudge the spacing to line up with the gear pitch they had. My question to you is when you run stock through this machine what does the actual stock measure out? Is it possible that the foundation shrinks back (revealing stress) over time? Maybe that is the reason.
    Looking at the product it doesn't look like you would stretch the foundation coming through the machine being as fragile as it is.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,463

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    When you mill wax sheets, the wax is very warm and pliable, not rigid and brittle.
    Regards, Barry

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,641

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Here is a gallery showing two different milling operations and tooling (Dee and Kirk).

    https://picasaweb.google.com/Dean.Ra...MakingAndMills

    deknow

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    5,999

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    I've been told Dee and hubby actually made their own mill is that correct?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    953

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    It doesn't matter if there are bearers or not if the rolls are geared then the gearing will determine if the resulting impression is larger or small that the physical size of the tooling in the direction of the web.
    O.K. For those of you that were steamed because I attempted to help Ace save face; I am very sorry.
    (Secret message to Ace): Engineerring is not an opinion type of thing. Just because a sentance is constructed properly does not establish fact.
    Gears determine nip?
    Ace, you are on your own from here out...
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Well your post educated me Harry, I didn't know that bears were bearers, thought it might be a typo for gears. Not sure if that's engineering slang or just Acebird slang!
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,013

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    from the Wiki for bearer.
    Beam (structure) or bearer, a structural element.
    Which indicates anything that supports anything. Which could also include the specific structural element of a Bearing. To say a bearer bears it burden sounds about right to me. or at least I am perfectly capable of figuring out what someone meant.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    3,013

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    When you mill wax sheets, the wax is very warm and pliable, not rigid and brittle.

    For over a year I process pizza dough through a pair of rollers much like this mill works. The sheet constantly came out curved. I cannot say I know the mechanics behind why that happens. I always thought it was a small error in the parallel alignment of the rollers. Leaving one side of the sheet slightly thicker than the other. The curve was so pronounced that it actually cracked the dough on the outer edge.

    I can't say how it happens but I would think the same thing is happening to the wax sheet.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,201

    Default Re: Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

    Physics?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

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