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Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

51K views 245 replies 40 participants last post by  rwurster 
#1 ·
Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?
I have only used sc foundation but if there is proof that LC is better I might be willing to experiment. ;)

If there's no clear advantage I'll just stick with what I've been doing... :)
 
#52 ·
It is either that or they had to fudge the spacing to line up with the gear pitch they had. My question to you is when you run stock through this machine what does the actual stock measure out? Is it possible that the foundation shrinks back (revealing stress) over time? Maybe that is the reason.
Looking at the product it doesn't look like you would stretch the foundation coming through the machine being as fragile as it is.
 
#59 ·
For over a year I process pizza dough through a pair of rollers much like this mill works. The sheet constantly came out curved. I cannot say I know the mechanics behind why that happens. I always thought it was a small error in the parallel alignment of the rollers. Leaving one side of the sheet slightly thicker than the other. The curve was so pronounced that it actually cracked the dough on the outer edge.

I can't say how it happens but I would think the same thing is happening to the wax sheet.
 
#58 ·
from the Wiki for bearer.
Beam (structure) or bearer, a structural element.
Which indicates anything that supports anything. Which could also include the specific structural element of a Bearing. To say a bearer bears it burden sounds about right to me. or at least I am perfectly capable of figuring out what someone meant.
 
#62 ·
Hmmm, tmi.

I bet it has something to do w/ changing something thick into something thinner by pressure. This can be seen to a lesser degree when rolling dough out on the counter w/ a rolling pin. I bet what you observed had something to do w/ two rollers. But I am a simpleminded person. A gift. :)
 
#65 ·
It would be interesting to know how such things are made. What th process of making rollers made in such a way as to make beeswax foundation. The making of the rollers themselves. I would imagine making such a thing w/ great accuracy might be more difficult than making a Frederick Remington original cast figure. Does anyone know how they were originally made in the mid 1800s?
 
#73 ·
I would imagine making such a thing w/ great accuracy might be more difficult than making a Frederick Remington original cast figure. Does anyone know how they were originally made in the mid 1800s?
There are two process that I know of for making rotary dies, CNC milling and EDM. These are specialized machines and very precise. Yes Oldtimer when you come around the other side it has to be a perfect match. This is the problem with the pitch dia of the gears.

one example:
http://www.midwayrotary.com/
 
#66 ·
Yes it wouldn't just be getting a round blank and stamping it either. As the cell impressions work their way around the roller, they have to join seemlessly with the first ones when they get all the way around.
 
#68 ·
Oh yes I'm sure it's all very simple to those who know how.

But I'm just a simple ex beekeeper. ;)

No doubt someone who knows will come along and explain it & I'll be glad to admire the intracacies involved.
 
#72 ·
How much interest is there in people actually purchasing mills? I've gotten some emails from China from one manufacturer, still pricey.

I have an idea (that I won't share here, sorry) for an easy way to mass produce mills, but it would require some upfront investment that I'm not sure the market can support. If you could buy a mill for $500, would you spend the money?

deknow
 
#81 ·
How much interest is there in people actually purchasing mills? I've gotten some emails from China from one manufacturer, still pricey.

I have an idea (that I won't share here, sorry) for an easy way to mass produce mills, but it would require some upfront investment that I'm not sure the market can support. If you could buy a mill for $500, would you spend the money?

deknow
I have heard tell of mills like Barrys' being sent into Third World Countrys back in the 70s and 80s. I believe Root Inc carried them in their catalog. I bet there are a bunch of them out there if people could find them. Maybe Root still has some in their warehouse. Check w/ Kim Flottum.

Maybe Dadant has some.
 
#75 ·
I heard a story from Kirk Webster that described an old machine he saw being used to make rollers at AI Root (it was something like the grandson of the guy that invented/built the machine still came in from time to time to make some, as no one else knew how to operate it...and he was an old guy!)...rather soft rollers, and a machine that chased the impression in...where the chasing tools were indexed to everything else (but I believe hammered by hand). I think there is a description in the old ABC volumes (should be able to find them on google books).

There is probably a bit of a slop factor available by chasing in a bit deeper (this isn't like cutting gears, it is more like slow motion, single point knurling).

deknow
 
#79 ·
I'm not going to bother copying anything, but my 1888 edition of ABC of Beekeeping has all of the info, including an engraving of a machine to make rollers (probably the one I described) and details of different methods that were used in the early days. You should be able to find it on google books, its under the heading of "comb foundation"

deknow
 
#85 ·
CNC milling would require an indexer capable of rotating in 1/100 of a degree increments and the inside corners of the cells would have a radius relative to the diameter of the cutter (endmill)...obviously not available back then. My thoughts would be an embossing operation similar to knurling on a lathe.
 
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