Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?

[BeeCurious]

Does "Large Cell" Beekeeping work?
I have only used sc foundation but if there is proof that LC is better I might be willing to experiment.

If there's no clear advantage I'll just stick with what I've been doing...

[Rader Sidetrack]

Just in case meaning of the imagery is unclear, I found it with a search of "Stir the Pot."

[AmericasBeekeeper]

LC works for me personally and the research hives. SC experts always attack Tom Seely but he is just one of dozens in several states and countries that found SC ineffective. The better question is how many small cell beekeepers do not use survivor or hygeinic stock, avoid poisoning bees unnecessarily, and do not starve them nutritionally, or stick them on trucks for most of the year as migrant workers.

[HarryVanderpool]

I will have a 5.5% loss this winter about double of what I normally have.
All large cell.
And I did not have to join the beekeeping taliban in order to keep losses low.
I just DO MY JOB as a beekeeper to the best of my ability every day.

[squarepeg]

bc, for what it is worth, and after three seasons using mann lake rite cell with a few foundationless mixed in, and zero treatments for mites:

2010 4 hives, no losses
2011 10 hives, no losses
2012 20 hives, 3 losses

the 2012 losses were one from afb, one from laying workers, and one from mites.

i attribute the one from mites to a poor queen, made by a weak nuc, that probably didn't mate well.
i would have tried to save it by requeening if i would have caught it in time.

[AstroBee]

I've been doing LC for over 11 years, basically treatment free. The "basically" qualifier means the first year when I overwintered a single colony I used Apistan because the beginner book I read was all about treating bees and I didn't have enough confidence to "break the rules". That was the first and only time I used "hard" treatments in any of my colonies. I used Sucrocide one season on a few colonies and MAQS (Fall 2011) on only two of my 40 colonies. I've come to the conclusion that these treatments are simply not worth the effort and expense. I saw no advantages from these treated hives relative to those neighboring untreated LC hives. In fact, one of the two hives treated with MAQS was the only one that showed significant number of mites in the drone brood the following spring. BTW, I use the evil 5.4 Mann lake Rite-Cell foundation too. Granted, my locality has pretty mild winters, so I don't want to make my record appear applicable to other regions. I run good hygienic stock (mostly from Glenn), and yes, even some of the V*H that so many seem to hate here on beesource. My colonies are extremely productive, far above most that I encounter in the 3 local clubs that I attend. My colonies all carry SHB, which I also don't manage with no negative impact. BTW, I've had SHB for 11 years. I monitor for varroa through drone brood uncapping and the occasional sticky board. I do split all my production colonies each spring using cut-downs to break the brood cycle just prior to peak honey flow. I make a good number of queens each year to propagate the best of my best.

So, yes it is doable (at least in my location) without harsh chems and SC. Has the pot been stirred enough yet?

[Belewsboy]

if honey bees naturally form a smaller cell, why is most foundation designed to encourage larger cells? What is the advantage of larger cells?

[Splatt]

if honey bees naturally form a smaller cell, why is most foundation designed to encourage larger cells? What is the advantage of larger cells?

The way I heard it, larger cells make larger bees, which is supposed to mean more nectar per load, hence increased honey production.

[squarepeg]

if honey bees naturally form a smaller cell, why is most foundation designed to encourage larger cells? What is the advantage of larger cells?

yeah, there's some history behind it. apparantly the first ones to figure out how to make foundation thought it would be a good idea, and it stuck.

[Roland]

I am not so sure of that. I have one of the first foundation mills made, by Mr. Olm of Fond du Lac Wis., and it is not the size of modern foundation. Neither is my great grandfather's mill in the Museum in Cassville, Wis. I can try to find my records.

Crazy Roland

[squarepeg]

how cool is that roland. i don't really know the history, but it seems like that info has been posted somewhere on the forum. where's it at rader!?

[Beesknees01]

I found second hand Silicone press for sale. I would like to make my own foundation. The seller told me it has few air bubbles!!! Will that be a problem for my bees? Thanks in advance

[sqkcrk]

No.
Yer welcome.

[BeeCurious]

Well... I'm not convinced that LARGE CELL beekeeping has any advantages over small cell.

[squarepeg]

we don't know for sure.

i 'm guessing small cell might give some advantage, but it's not the only factor among many others all of which added together determine the final outcome.

many have found ways to successful off treatments with standard cell, and some have found small cell does not guarentee success off treatments.

i'll consider it if all else fails, which so far, it hasn't.