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Thread: Carniolan Bees

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI, USA
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    91

    Default Carniolan Bees

    My first two packages are coming from the milwaukee-wauwatosa beekeeping association. They are getting the carniolan packages from Ray Olivarez. Should I be worried about having Carniolans as a beginning beekeeper?

    I had figured as long as I did some amateurish checkerboarding in early spring the next year it wouldn't be too big a deal- but I've read stories of multiple swarms in a year. I suppose I could always really enjoy the splits and then requeen them with italians...but it sounds kind of dissapointing to me. Is this race really that hard the manage with swarming?

    What I don't understand about honey bee genetics is why the big breeders haven't been able to remove the genetic likelyhood of traits like swarming. Why don't we have gentle african honey bees, non-swarmy carniolans, honey making caucasians and morally upstanding italians?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,213

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    Gus, the best prevention for swarms is drawn empty comb above the broodnest and new beekeepers don't usually have any. I would not be overworried about one strain of bees swarming versus another I have had Minnesota Hygienics swarm and Carniolans swarm. Swarming is a natural way for a colony to reproduce itself, and new packages will swarm especially if they are overfed. If your bees swarm don't be hard on yourself, just learn from it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,664

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    Carnis are going to be just fine.

    You have plenty of time to avoid an " amateurish checkerboarding".

    There's time to learn a lot.... Read read read....!
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,224

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    gus
    carniolan bees are great bees. just do good basic beekeepng and skip the checkerboarding. a new queen will not swarm so why screw up the hive. good luck

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    660

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    I have Carniolan's. I have stopped them from swarming by keeping them busy making wax, they are very good at it! Don't feed once they have more than 4 frames drawn.

    Have a look at:
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...arm-Prevention

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...fferent-breeds

    Matthew Davey

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    No. I started with them and they are good hardy bees; easy to keep up with.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
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    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    Olivarez has great Carnies. They build fast so keep the brood nest open and split if you have to.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm
    President, San Francisco Beekeepers Association
    www.habitatforhoneybees.org

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Genola, Ut
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    This is my third year with carni's. I have not had a swarm leave yet. I keep up with them and do splits frequently.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,369

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus979 View Post
    I had figured as long as I did some amateurish checkerboarding in early spring the next year it wouldn't be too big a deal- but I've read stories of multiple swarms in a year.
    You might find this paper on checkerboarding useful:
    http://www.beesource.com/point-of-vi...d-conclusions/
    Graham
    --- Practical reality trumps philosophy!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
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    660

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    Checkerboarding doesn't work real well with foundation. You really need to use drawn comb and you'll need at least 2 boxes of drawn comb to do it properly.

    It also needs to be done real early, at the end of winter when the plum trees are blossoming (in my area anyway.)

    I think first and even second year beekeepers will be more successful with "Opening the broodnest". I've got a modification on that which I call "Maintaining a hole beside the broodnest". You need to use foundationless frames for this (although you can use a short strip of foundation as a guide if you wish.)

    Matthew Davey

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,929

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    I use foundation with good results, I just stick it in there, not right in the middle of the brood nest but they will draw it out quick, at least my bees did, less than a week and start to lay in it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    660

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    I'm saying checkerboarding (as in late winter and early spring) with foundation doesn't work real well in terms of swarm prevention. Once there is a flow on they will draw foundation well.

    Matthew Davey

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI, USA
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    91

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Mirabel, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    423

    Default Re: Carniolan Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus979 View Post
    My first two packages are coming from the milwaukee-wauwatosa beekeeping association. They are getting the carniolan packages from Ray Olivarez. Should I be worried about having Carniolans as a beginning beekeeper?

    I had figured as long as I did some amateurish checkerboarding in early spring the next year it wouldn't be too big a deal- but I've read stories of multiple swarms in a year. I suppose I could always really enjoy the splits and then requeen them with italians...but it sounds kind of dissapointing to me. Is this race really that hard the manage with swarming?

    What I don't understand about honey bee genetics is why the big breeders haven't been able to remove the genetic likelyhood of traits like swarming. Why don't we have gentle african honey bees, non-swarmy carniolans, honey making caucasians and morally upstanding italians?
    I started with carniolans, and no problems there. In fact, I'd say that you risk less as a new beekeeper than an experienced one does, because you don't have the habits and expectations that someone who has only used italians has. Same goes with russians, I'd reckon. Each breed has their own specificities, which you must respect. If you all you ever had was italians, and you finally decide to get carniolans, but you treat them like italians... odds are you'll have some problems, and you'll complain to others about how bad carniolans are. The opposite would be just as true.

    I personally don't feel that any race of Apis mellifera is inferior to any of the others. It's all a question of how well your practices are adapted to your breeds, or how your breeds are adapted to your practices. Some people will rate bees according to their honey yields... I would consider this to be a mistake. Is A. m. caucasica inferior to A. m. ligustica because it yields less honey...? If you compare the market value of honey and propolis, and factor in how caucasica are heavy propolisers, I'd have a really hard time accepting that caucasica is inferior to ligustica just because it makes a bit less honey.

    Just be sure to give your bees room. Carnies are more prone to swarming, so don't let them beard as much as you would with italians.

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