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  1. #301
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,426

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Is beesource.com a successful website/business? Will you prove it to me either way by lining up all the numbers? Do you think John and Phil will line their numbers (for their forums) up against yours?

    Unless we are willing to post notarized P&L statements prepared by independent auditors, it is difficult to imagine having this kind of comparison be accurate.

    I've edited enough bee talk footage (both for "the natural crowd" and for our mainstream county bee club with 700 members) that it won't implicate anyone in particular to say that more than once, the only edit I've performed is to blank out the part where the beekeeper talks about their scheme to not paying taxes on the honey they sell (it usually involves packing in mason jars that can be bought with cash). I've never heard any claim like this from any of the beekeepers we work with directly, but I can't be the only person to hear people talk about this (usually the audience laughs and applauds). If someone were doing this, would they report an accurate number to a public forum when it would contradict with what is on their tax return? For the record, we only pack honey in glass classic honey jars, and our chocolate in pint and half pint jars. All are purchased new by the pallet. Oh, we also use 1/2 gallon mason jars for honey and chocolate, and buy them new at the hardware store.

    deknow

  2. #302
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    I never claimed it was or wasn't a successful site. Until I do that, you have no argument/case.

    On the other hand, you have claimed that there are those who are successful commercial TF beekeepers. How do you expect any other commercial beekeeper to put any weight in that statement unless you ,or the three the mentioned, are willing to define it in ways another commercial beekeeper could compare with? I've always said TF can work for the guy who doesn't have to make a living from bees, but I just don't see how a case can be made, from what I know, that it works financially for other commercial beekeepers.
    Regards, Barry

  3. #303
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by Riskybizz View Post
    Oldtimer if I am ever in your part of the world, I might look you up.
    Cheers, and you or anyone else on Beesource would be MOST WELCOME. You would of course be expected to tour some of my bees, get lectured about sc / lc, bee breeding, etc, and if up to it help me do some work.

    Anybody coming this way, Dean even, drop me a pm, i am NOT KIDDING.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  4. #304
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,426

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Oldtimer...I know..and you know the reverse is true as well. ...I imagine a great evening of wine, women, and song....followed by a great drunken brawl over the girl singer

    deknow

  5. #305
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    That you would have to do on her terms, at her group. She gave up participating here because I would not hold to the strict terms she wanted, you know, no mention of "drugs, chemicals, essential oils, herbs, FGMO, acids, fungicides, bacterial/viral inhibitants, micro-organism stimuli, and artificial feeds". I have always felt that there needs to be room for those who are transitioning off treatments and allow discussion for that. Dee is pretty much cold turkey approach with no room for much else.
    Riskybiss,
    Dee's forum is great, I highly recommend. You get top notch no nonsense info from Dee, no excuses for using dopes and artificial feeding. Sometimes you have to read the posts a few times to get message but it is worth it. Less talking and whining and more doing....I like it!!
    Donna
    46N

  6. #306
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,044

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Bee work? Drunken brawls? I dont need no 20 hour flight to New Zealand for that. Wait a minute thats a double negative isnt it?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  7. #307
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,041

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    i'm in! you'll recognize me as the one walking aroung doing armpit farts and wearing the t-shirt that says 'i'm sorry dean'.
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  8. #308
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    4,959

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    Drunken brawls? I dont need no 20 hour flight to New Zealand for that.
    Well, you will probably have to go somewhere other than Herrick to have that kind of fun! According to the census, Herrick has 105 people. And the hotspot of the town is a grain elevator that you can sleep in!


    http://www.herrickelevator.com

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrick,_South_Dakota

    Just funning you ...
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  9. #309
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,044

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    You gonna try to pigeonhole us Herrick folk by teasing us about the elevator? There is a whole lot more to Herrick than that. Read on in Wikipedia and don't miss the part about the annual Squeal meal complete with hog calling contest and they fail to even mention the frog jumping contest that my hired man puts on for the kids. As Jeff Foxworthy would say, "if yer towns claim to fame is a frog jumping contest......."
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #310
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,426

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Jim...the problem isn't an elevator ...the problem is that it is referred to as _"the"_ elevator

    deknow

  11. #311
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,610

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    ....but posters here want to tell me what is in them, how they can be improved, how qualified the authors are....all without even reading them.
    I would disagree at the level of deciding if something is worth reading at all. that would be like saying you have to read a book before you can decide if you will like it or not.

    Any paper must first qualify in order to be chosen for reading.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  12. #312
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,592

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I would disagree at the level of deciding if something is worth reading at all. that would be like saying you have to read a book before you can decide if you will like it or not.
    Yes, can't we just judge them by their covers?
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  13. #313
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,464

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Barry said:

    I've always said TF can work for the guy who doesn't have to make a living from bees, but I just don't see how a case can be made, from what I know, that it works financially for other commercial beekeepers.

    Dean - With respect - Send me a PM with a price and Quantity of TF honey you would be willing to buy in a season. I can answer if it would work financially for a commercial beekeeper. This would be Wisconsin Certified Honey, under license WCH-0001.

    Crazy Roland

  14. #314
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,430

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Hmm... That would be interesting. Don't want any personal info obviously, but after you've done the math Roland please share in broad details how it would work. After the initial analysis, you could also extrapolate in some other stuff like cost of hive losses, the fact treatments wouldn't have to be paid for, etc. Would we be talking a static operation, or one also doing pollination etc.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-18-2012 at 03:59 AM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  15. #315
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,610

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    Yes, can't we just judge them by their covers?
    You can if that is how you choose to do it. You can also look into something enough to then make the decision it is no longer worth looking into.

    I for example know I do not tend to like romance novels. I know because I have read some of them and have never found one I like. About two years ago or so A friend of mine was having some relationship problems. At that time the book Eat, Love, Pray was popular. My friend read that book and then started talking about it like it was the relationship bible. I read it, not because I wanted to read it but because I wanted to know what my friend was reading. I did not like the book. I did not need to read the book to know I was probably not going to like it. I did that long ago.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  16. #316
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    . . . except for Crazy Roland, whom I forgot about.
    Regards, Barry

  17. #317
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    I don't want to characterize Jim's product...I'm sure it is well above average.
    Why are you sure of that?

    Again, I'm not comparing Jim's honey to mediocre band instruments...I'm poniting out that doing things different ways requires different things and results in a different outcome.
    OK then, instead, compare Jim's honey to your honey. What's the different outcome?

    Jim said: "if you really want to make a difference in this industry give us an example, suggest a blueprint if you will for how this works on a large scale because that is how you really make a difference."

    I look forward to hearing your reply.
    Regards, Barry

  18. #318
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,044

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    What Barry may not be aware of, and what Dean may feel isn't his place to reveal, is that I shared honey test results of our 2011 crop honey with Dean earlier this year. The results showed 0 ppb's Aamitraz, Fluvalinate, Coumaphous, fumagillan, tetracycline and no indication of any adulteration. 3 of the 10 samples showed low singles digit readings for Tylosin (what can I say) the other 7 were negative. I havent spoken of this on here much but given Barry's post I figured why not. I am aware that the whole treatment free thing is about more than just test results from someone on "the other side". Choose your own reasons for being TF there are certainly other considerations but I also think its important to demonstrate to everyone what can be accomplished with treatments replied responsibly since providing as pure a product to the consumer is really our ultimate goal.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  19. #319
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,419

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    I am aware that the whole treatment free thing is about more than just test results from someone on "the other side".
    Would you like to share with us how you treated with these chemicals and they didn't show up in this honey sample. You may be on to something big.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  20. #320
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,044

    Default Re: small cell foundation

    OK Brian here it is one more time and it aint that complicated. A late summer application of thymol (after the honey supers are removed though I am not sure this is critical), perhaps MAQS or Hopguard would suffice here as well. I dont know, I havent tried them. Then a single oxalic dribble in October after the bees have gone broodless. In the spring we kill all our queens and replace with a ripe queen cell. At this point one can choose to do a hopguard or an oxalic treatment at the 20 day mark if it appears there are many mites but that may well not be necessary, we have chosen not to do so for the past two years and it seems are bees are the better for it. Thats it, no other spring or summer treatments. Of course results may vary and I am aware that this program wont work for everyone because not everyone migrates, has similar beestock or has similar brood rearing seasons.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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