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Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

46K views 114 replies 35 participants last post by  SeaCucumber 
#1 ·
Hello all,
I would like to learn how to make my own frames. I know that some of you all do make your own, and I am wondering if you would be willing to share the steps and process here. Please post pictures or videos! I am really interested in pics and videos, seeing I have already seen some plans, but have yet to come even close to perfecting the process. The few ones I have made work, but take awhile to make, and are altered slightly for easier "manufacturing" and construction. I'll post some photos as soon as I can. Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
I'm in the same boat. I'd like to see if I can cost effectively make my own frames. I think getting choice lumber is going to be the difficult part. It'd be impossible to make good frames from the standard 1 by lumber I get from Lowe's without cutting out a bunch of the big knots.
 
#4 ·
Okay, here is my very simple design. The bottom bar is an unused one from Mann Lake that I had sitting around. I make my own bottom bars identically except for that I don't neck down the ends.This is an unused foundationless jumbo frame; you can tell by the fishline wiring and the starter strip in the top bar groove. Here are some pics:

Picture frame Wood Window Rectangle


Table Molding Shelf Furniture Ceiling


Wood Plywood Table Hardwood Molding


Floor Wood Plywood Flooring Laminate flooring


Wood Plywood
 
#11 ·
Western-beekeeper, I was introduced to making my own frames by my mentor and have refined it and now make my own frames and boxes. I had made some special cutters which work with a Shaper and and have had the blades on my Jioner recut to make the end bar so that it is just like it comes from the bee supply. You can use a whobble Dado to do a lot of the other cuts that are required. I don't have any photos to share or videos yet will see if the wife can take a few pictures and I will post them later so if you ever get to this part of Calif. Let me know and I will show you. Tom
 
#15 ·
CDX is one of many many many types of plywood....and about the lowest grade you can buy.
Not all plywood have voids, better quality cabinet plys will not, and marine ply will not.
That said, plywood seems a poor choice for any frame components at a number of levels.

Benjamin,
I like making my own gear. The frames I make I feel are better than any I have purchased...but not that much better...and certainly not better enough to make any functional difference. I have a full woodshop, I have been a profesional woodworker for 15 years and it is still financially foolish for me to be making frames. Once or twice a year I do a run of a hundred or so because my needs are small and I hate to burn a bunch of nice clear scrap. But for an operation of any size I just can't see it.

The bulk of the time is in the top bars. The dadant style construction gives you a very strong joint in the vertical pull relative to the side bars. MOst of the shortcuts I have seen (including yours) are a substantial step down in strength and I would worry about them holding up long term in hives that are not worked very regularly keeping the frames loose.

But like I said, I get wanting to make your own gear. And there have been times i my life when I had free time a plenty but precious little cash. If I wanted to make a lot of functional durable frames cheap/fast I would look at some type of light metal strapping to bind the top bar to the side bars and keep the joinery in that area simplified. Good luck with it.
 
#16 ·
Windfall, You are right. but the context of this conversation is about making fraems a 70 cent item if purchased at some sources. I think it is pretty safe no one is going to consider a $50 plus sheet of plywood.

I also have a full shop and agree it is not worth the time it takes. Go mow yards you can make more money in the same time as it would take to order them. A woodworker has a desire to get out in the shop. This adds to the benefits of making your own. but even with that it is barely worth it for me. Time in my shop would be far more quality if spent it making a bow rather than 100 veeeery boring frames.
 
#17 ·
As soon as I get a band saw I'll be starting in on the load of frames I need to make since I want all narrows for the brood nest. Less waste with the band saw, I get a "free" top bar from each blank.

The other advantage is that if you want to make non-standard sized hive boxes for some reason, you can still use standard style frames. I'm thinking of trying some extra deep boxes this year for brood (standard 1x12 width, whatever that is) and I can easily make my own frames, or just end bars if I want.

Here's what I do:

Find some nice straight, flat 2 by stock (any width, but 8 or 10 inch is easier). Cut to 19" long or a shade less, then run through the planer to get it as close to flat as possible without taking more than 1/16" off each side. Joint one side true -- the other will be waste most likely.

Set up the table saw to cut an angled cut across the end for the angled end (18 degrees, I think -- I just match a Kelley top bar). Cut the slot in both sides of the 2 by blank.

Repeat for a pile of blanks -- this is one job you need to do in discrete steps, that way once you get it set up correctly you can make a couple hundred at a time.

Set up the band saw to rip the blank into double bars the correct width (7/8" for narrows, 1 1/16" for standard top bars). Cut the whole pile of blanks. Discard any thin or knotty ones -- always a surprise in that 2 by somewhere.

Set the band saw up to split the doubles exactly in half (another reason to plane the blanks down a bit, they will all be exactly the same thickness). Split the doubles into singles.

Set up the table saw with the dado blade to cut the notches in the sides 1/16" to 1/8" deep. Cut all the bars, both sides, both ends using a boat or a correctly set slide. Double check for square before cutting, and make sure you have the inside edge of the slot exactly 1" from the end of the bar.

Set the dado higher to cut the correct depth on the bottom of the bar to get 5/8" of material left. Cut both ends -- this will cut off the extra under the taper.

I use a wedge type bar, so I cut a single kerf just off center so that the center of a sheet of foundation will be exactly in the center of the top bar, then cut another kerf to almost free a strip on the thin side. For grooved top bars just cut a centered kerf.

Top bars are done.

Plane down some 2 by stock to the correct width for your end bars. Narrow frames need 1.25", standard 1.375". Cut some sections of planed down 2 by to the correct length for the frames you are making. Don't remember the exact dimensions off the top of my head, but they are standard. Set the dado blade for the correct width to fit your top bars (measure!) and mill a slot across one end of the blocks 5/8" deep. Best to do this in a couple passes, at least on my saw. Again, you can use a "boat" jig, it's safer.

Mill whatever slot you need in the bottom of the end bars -- i use 2 slots 1/8" apart that are 5/16" x 5/16" for square bars that size for a divided bottom bar, you can use whatever you like.

Set the band saw up to cut the blocks into end bars lengthwise. Purchased end bars run close to 5/16", I've made most of mine so far at 3/8", they are a bit stronger that way. Make sure they are just a tiny bit narrower than the slot you cut in the top bars so they slide together. Slice your blocks into end bars.

Set up a jointer to cut 1/8" deep and cut the sides down on the end bars if you want to make Hoffman style bars, or just leave them full width, either works. Supposed to be less propolis with the Hoffman style.

Cut the bottom bar of your choice. I've been using up scrap for mine, although it's also easy to cut them from the left overs and 2 by stock. If you use 3/8" end bars, the bottom bars will be 17 3/4" long.

I hand drill the holes for the cross wires, but I'll probably fix up a drill jig this year to get them spaced better and closer to the center of the bars. I like cross wires.

Assemble with glue and nails. Verify that the frames are square and flat before the glue sets!

This project works best if you do all of one step before moving on to the next. I'm collecting scrap 2 by at the moment (got some nice 2 x 10 cedar at Menard's in the scrap bin for 69 cents a couple weeks ago). Once I get enough to give me the 100 or so top bars I want this year, I'll get going and start filling cardboard boxes with partially done work. It's pretty boring -- doing the same job over and over and over, but it's pretty fast once you get set up. Takes longer to set up each set than to do it most of the time, especially cutting the dados on the blocks for end bars. I highly recommend you make as many as you think you'll use in a couple years at once, that way you don't have to set up again.

Peter
 
#22 ·
Not only that, but you can easily make custom frames for non-standard boxes. True narrow frames with narrow top bars instead of standard ones with shaved down end bars, for instance.

Maybe not for a commercial beek, but then again, how many new frames a year does one need in an established apiary? Ditto for boxes, since they should both last quite a while.

Peter
 
#23 ·
If you want to build your frames then build your first hives with frames that you order. After you get the feel for what each piece looks like and why its shaped the way it is, it will be a lot easier for you to build your own frames. When I build my own frames I use frame components that Dadant precuts and set my saws to match the shape of those pieces. I use a radial arm saw and table saw. The radial arm saw with a dado blade makes the process very efficient. You can easily build a couple of hundred frame components per day.

Having said all that. From a labor/time standpoint, the savings isn't that great. But, it sure helps to take your mind off other things. So build frames for the fun of it and buy frames when you are in a time crunch.
 
#24 ·
Peter, here is your post from a while back that I used to make my frames from on how to do it easy. I know you posted above but I found this easier to follow (post 6)
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?265500-Making-frames-and-boxes
I put it into a word document and could not find the post until I took the entire first paragraph to google.
I would add that since I am working rough cut lumber ($0.40/bf) I plane down some boards to 7/8” (two 3/8” cuts plus kirf) then do as many operations as possible in full length boards for the bottom. (you stated scrap)
For the top bar I simply planed the boards until they were clean (I was a little thin if memory serves me). Then did as many rip operations as possible. Maybe next time I will run them rough at 1 1/16”
At this point it was all the same so I just cut up the entire planks to as many as I could. Sides determined the frame size and that only came down to what length to cut them at. I pushed mine through the joiner to get the fancy edges (to the depth of the plan after cutting the bottom 3/4” dato.
I purchased some 2x6 for the sides. I dug through them a little but a knot only ruined a couple of frames. It is all about repetition. As it was said about 4 cheap boards made about 75 frames so I really only had my time into it.
 
#26 ·
If I charged my normal consultant rate those frames would have to be gold filled to break even on them, but I don't consider woodworking time to be consulting. I don't get paid to do it, it's a hobby.

One should be careful about "valuing" time spend on this sort of stuff -- if you were turning down actual work and real income, yeah, you should consider that, but if you were going to mow grass or stare at the boob tube, it's free, not lost income.

I get a little annoyed at people who talk about how much their time is worth when they aren't doing their professional job. Creating frames from scrap (which is where mine come from -- the scrap bin at Menard's) means cash not spent on pre-cut frames. No one is paying me for my time in the shop, and while my job is driving me nuts at the moment -- going in for the SECOND time while I'm on vacation to fix a bad design on a purge and trap concentraton -- I'm not losing any money by making stuff.

I look at it this way -- I'm getting short pieces of 2x6 for 49 or 69 cents. From that 49 cent board, I get ten full sized top bars and deep end bars for them, or two sets of shallow end bars. Narrow frames I get a dozen top bars. I have tons of scrap lying around for bottom bars (I use divided ones), so I'm paying in cash about a nickel per frame, not counting the bandsaw blades I've wrecked in the last week getting my bandsaw working. This is pretty cheap, they are the size I want, and so far I've got an hour in them for 50 frames. I'll have another couple hours before I'm done making parts and putting 100 frames together, and I'd just be reading or cleaning house otherwise.

Suit yourself. I'm not sure I'd do this for a commercial operation, but then again, unless one had to burn a lot of frames every year, I'd not expect to have to replace a huge number even in a large operation, and it's not like I'm doing anything with the bees at the moment, besides going out later today and clearing off the landing boards.

Peter
 
#27 ·
Ben, what ever jig you end up making I hope it has some safety features/finger barriers. I know it is a downer to bring it up, but your fingers are valuable to you.
That is one of the reason I use Mann Lake plastic frames. I make all my other woodenware and enjoy it, the box lumber is wide enough that I can keep my fingers away from the blade. Frames are too narrow for my liking and there are so many cuts involved that I can imagine my concentration wandering away from the saw and my fingers wandering into the blade. :eek:
Please be careful.
 
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