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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,073

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    1 frame $1.00
    60 frames in a typical hive $60.00
    600 frames in 10 hives $600.00

    My bee bud and I can build 600 professional quality frames for far less than $600.00
    That guy is the jig master.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,224

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Not only that, but you can easily make custom frames for non-standard boxes. True narrow frames with narrow top bars instead of standard ones with shaved down end bars, for instance.

    Maybe not for a commercial beek, but then again, how many new frames a year does one need in an established apiary? Ditto for boxes, since they should both last quite a while.

    Peter

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Richardson, TX, USA
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    If you want to build your frames then build your first hives with frames that you order. After you get the feel for what each piece looks like and why its shaped the way it is, it will be a lot easier for you to build your own frames. When I build my own frames I use frame components that Dadant precuts and set my saws to match the shape of those pieces. I use a radial arm saw and table saw. The radial arm saw with a dado blade makes the process very efficient. You can easily build a couple of hundred frame components per day.

    Having said all that. From a labor/time standpoint, the savings isn't that great. But, it sure helps to take your mind off other things. So build frames for the fun of it and buy frames when you are in a time crunch.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clackamas Oregon
    Posts
    630

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Peter, here is your post from a while back that I used to make my frames from on how to do it easy. I know you posted above but I found this easier to follow (post 6)
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ames-and-boxes
    I put it into a word document and could not find the post until I took the entire first paragraph to google.
    I would add that since I am working rough cut lumber ($0.40/bf) I plane down some boards to 7/8” (two 3/8” cuts plus kirf) then do as many operations as possible in full length boards for the bottom. (you stated scrap)
    For the top bar I simply planed the boards until they were clean (I was a little thin if memory serves me). Then did as many rip operations as possible. Maybe next time I will run them rough at 1 1/16”
    At this point it was all the same so I just cut up the entire planks to as many as I could. Sides determined the frame size and that only came down to what length to cut them at. I pushed mine through the joiner to get the fancy edges (to the depth of the plan after cutting the bottom 3/4” dato.
    I purchased some 2x6 for the sides. I dug through them a little but a knot only ruined a couple of frames. It is all about repetition. As it was said about 4 cheap boards made about 75 frames so I really only had my time into it.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hiltons,Virginia
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    What do you estimate you have in them if you count your time when they are fully assembled?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,224

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    If I charged my normal consultant rate those frames would have to be gold filled to break even on them, but I don't consider woodworking time to be consulting. I don't get paid to do it, it's a hobby.

    One should be careful about "valuing" time spend on this sort of stuff -- if you were turning down actual work and real income, yeah, you should consider that, but if you were going to mow grass or stare at the boob tube, it's free, not lost income.

    I get a little annoyed at people who talk about how much their time is worth when they aren't doing their professional job. Creating frames from scrap (which is where mine come from -- the scrap bin at Menard's) means cash not spent on pre-cut frames. No one is paying me for my time in the shop, and while my job is driving me nuts at the moment -- going in for the SECOND time while I'm on vacation to fix a bad design on a purge and trap concentraton -- I'm not losing any money by making stuff.

    I look at it this way -- I'm getting short pieces of 2x6 for 49 or 69 cents. From that 49 cent board, I get ten full sized top bars and deep end bars for them, or two sets of shallow end bars. Narrow frames I get a dozen top bars. I have tons of scrap lying around for bottom bars (I use divided ones), so I'm paying in cash about a nickel per frame, not counting the bandsaw blades I've wrecked in the last week getting my bandsaw working. This is pretty cheap, they are the size I want, and so far I've got an hour in them for 50 frames. I'll have another couple hours before I'm done making parts and putting 100 frames together, and I'd just be reading or cleaning house otherwise.

    Suit yourself. I'm not sure I'd do this for a commercial operation, but then again, unless one had to burn a lot of frames every year, I'd not expect to have to replace a huge number even in a large operation, and it's not like I'm doing anything with the bees at the moment, besides going out later today and clearing off the landing boards.

    Peter

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,140

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Ben, what ever jig you end up making I hope it has some safety features/finger barriers. I know it is a downer to bring it up, but your fingers are valuable to you.
    That is one of the reason I use Mann Lake plastic frames. I make all my other woodenware and enjoy it, the box lumber is wide enough that I can keep my fingers away from the blade. Frames are too narrow for my liking and there are so many cuts involved that I can imagine my concentration wandering away from the saw and my fingers wandering into the blade.
    Please be careful.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,760

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    I want to start making my own narrow frames (1 1/4") and my biggest concern is the end bars and what to make them out of, is slicing them out of 2x stock the best way to go? John

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,592

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    I want to start making my own narrow frames (1 1/4") and my biggest concern is the end bars and what to make them out of, is slicing them out of 2x stock the best way to go? John
    I had two 2x10's planed down to 1.25 " to begin with.
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...152#post876152

    I'll thin the lower sections of the end bars on a joiner if there is a next time...
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,760

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    I would think that you only want to use the nice clear wood without knots on your frame parts so by using 2x material you probably have to scrap some of the board. Will a lumber yard plane down 2x for you? John

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,610

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    I want to start making my own narrow frames (1 1/4") and my biggest concern is the end bars and what to make them out of, is slicing them out of 2x stock the best way to go? John
    That is how I do it. you might be surprised how many short scrap pieces of 2X you find if you start looking for them. I gathered them up for a couple of days and had enough for 200 end bars.

    Not a lot of construction sights around right now but they woudl be a gold mine. They are building a new building right next door to my warehouse. I asked the big boss on that sight to toss a few scraps next to my dock. He had a much bigger idea of a few than I did.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,224

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Working on that tonight, I think, unless it gets too cold in the shop -- gotta get the new furnace installed some day.

    Planed down a big hunk of 2x6 today to 1.25", will get the piece I got yesterday plus some other odds and ends planed down tonight, then cut to length for deeps, super deeps, and mediums. I've got a few deeps already made, plus some mediums and a handful of top bars.

    Cut 120 top bars out of 2 by this afternoon, both cuts, so I'll be setting up the dado blade once I decide if I'm going to use a full 3/8" or 5/16". I'll be able to finish the top bars in an hour or so, probably have to discard some due to knots and splits, there is always a defect in that board one cannot see somewhere, that's why I made 120 instead of the 100 I really need.

    Small solid knots I ignore unless I'll have to drive a nail into them --that won't work well. Large knots are a problem in top bars, less so in end bars, but yeah, I do have to watch. Pin knots in soft pine are OK and can be pretty much ignored. If you want perfect clear frames, you will have to do a lot of selecting and discard quite a bit, me, so long as they don't have weak spots, I don't care. I'm sure the bees don't either.

    I've been taking photographs as I go this time, so I'll post them once I get them off the camera.

    Construction site left-overs are true gold mines for beeks, lots of 18 inch and up 1 x 12 with a knot in the center gets tossed, makes perfect boxes, and what they consider useless short pieces of 2 by are prefect for top bars and end bars.

    Waste not want not!

    Peter

  13. #33

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    I've cut my own frames but when they can be bought for 60 or 65 cents a piece I don't have the time or the patience to cut them. I figured it up when I built them last (which I will never do again) I had 35 cents in wood to build them. So figure you are saving 30 cents to cut them. 100 frames would save you 30 bucks. PASS! In my opinion it's not worth the time. If you have some specialized equipment to build them and are going to cut 10 or 20 thousand I would say the cost savings would be justified. My 2 cents.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,224

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Some pictures. First is a top bar "blank" with the two slots cut in it. 10 degree angle on the table saw set so the wedge is 3/8" measured 3/8" from the end.

    Second picture is the 7/8" slices taken off the blank on the table saw.

    Third picture is the band saw set up to split the slices into two top bars.

    Fourth is a box of 120 narrow top bars ready to cut the dados in.

    These operations can be done with a table saw, but you lose two top bars off each 2 x 6 blank if you do.

    Peter
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #35
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,073

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Here's a pic of one of ours built yesterday.

    1230120849.jpg

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Trinity, NC, USA
    Posts
    143

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    I am building my own Jumbo frames with Dadant's and C.C. Miller's design. These frames are made from Beechwood, cut and shaped with dado blades and cutter heads.

    The top bar is 1.125" wide and 7/8" thick!




  17. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Trinity, NC, USA
    Posts
    143

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Ripped the end bars and bottom bars 1.125" wide and 1/2" thick. Notched end bars with dado cutter and sled. Simple with basic table saw tooling!



  18. #38
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,705

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Rail, what do you do for spacing your frames?

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, NH
    Posts
    464

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Quote Originally Posted by westernbeekeeper View Post
    Hello all,
    I would like to learn how to make my own frames. I know that some of you all do make your own, and I am wondering if you would be willing to share the steps and process here. Please post pictures or videos! I am really interested in pics and videos, seeing I have already seen some plans, but have yet to come even close to perfecting the process. The few ones I have made work, but take awhile to make, and are altered slightly for easier "manufacturing" and construction. I'll post some photos as soon as I can. Thanks in advance.
    I hope this help you out

    Part 1
    http://youtu.be/FrK2mG44wpQ

    Part 2
    http://youtu.be/Avww6M2zlRw



    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Palermo, Maine, USA
    Posts
    724

    Default Re: Do you make your own frames? Please show me how!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim 134 View Post
    I hope this help you out

    This guy needs to make some push sticks or he is going to end up with some shorter fingers!
    Like us on facebook This is the place to bee!
    Ralph

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