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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dexter, Missouri USA
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    From what I've observed, newly hatched virgins are relatively easy to catch and handle. Somewhat sluggish, and flying is not an option. I've seen swarm queens a bit more active upon hatching, but I speculate they were held in their cells by the workers until the proper time for swarming. My kids hold newly hatched queens often. A couple days later, they are quite developed in their movements, are extremely quick, and potentially will fly. It's as if they consumed mass amounts of caffeine in that period. I agree with Michael that the incubator is an added step. However, I segregate them a couple days before hatching. I don't have to worry about opening up a cell builder to find a virgin appeared and cleaned me out. Also if someone comes to pick up cells and an opportune rain shower appeared that day, no worries. I like to take them out of the builder four or five days before they hatch for safety and convenience. Newly hatched virgins do have a short "shelf life" of not cared for properly. It's best to use them within 12-24 hours unless you bank then in a queenless hive for a short time. Be careful introducing virgins that have been banked a couple days. Don't give them an escape route..... They're extremely flighty.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,662

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    thanks whitetail.

    i have no experience, but i do like the idea of making sure it's a good cell, seeing that hatches properly, and the convenience of getting the marking done.

    i'll probably only do about a dozen or so at a time, and my plan is to put them straight away into five frame nucs for mating, set up with 2-3 frames of bees.

    my schedule is pretty flexible, so i shoud be able to get the timing right.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dexter, Missouri USA
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    Candling as previously mentioned is very handy. You can cull cells that are blanks. Some queens will just stop developing at various stages and the cell will be capped and appear healthy from an outward appearance. The best time to candle is right before they hatch. You can see the queens moving in the cells. Very facinating. But, you better have cages to segregate them. When they're wigglers, they're within hours of hatching.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,662

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    very good info, thanks again to all.

    from what i can tell, lauri put the hair roller cages on the cells when she put them into the incubator. i guess that's what i'll try.

    is there a guideline for how long is too long to keep a frame of young larva out of the hive while grafting?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Athens, greece
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    Keep them under a wet towel, and you are OK

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,723

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    I love my incubator for hatching out the queens. My operation is very small compared to Michael Palmers and the 'extra step' is enjoyable.
    Queen rearing is still new to me. I am still enthusiastic. When it becoms a 'Job' I may have a different opinion about my methods. But for now, I am completly satisfied with my procedures.

    Placing cells in mating nucs is faster and efficient. Checking mating nucs for a successful hatch takes time too. You can easily have mating nucs that are queenless and out of service too long if you don't.

    But I Hate looking for unmarked queens, especially virgins. By marking mine as soon as they hatch, then placing in the mating nucs, they are a snap to find. Even in a five frame deep nuc, as long as they aren't out on a mating flight.
    I found no difference between successful return percentage with both marked an unmarked virgins. The time I save NOT looking for queens in the nucs has to be far more than the time I spend incubating them.



    Besides, I handle them a few times before I place them and teach them to sit and stay.

    Watch these videos..These are how I learned. Of course I modified them to my own ideas, mating nuc designs and climate.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZlQ7...=ULjVwAiUJ4fdQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVwAi...=ULwZlQ7mNmf6o

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3lLi...=ULjVwAiUJ4fdQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV-3B...=ULW3lLihcBHkQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELLcz...=ULlV-3Bz7TNlU

    Heres a few more photos. You'll have a blast raising the queens






    Poor mans incubator..but it works just fine:




    What I don't like waiting for is the queen to lay in the Mann Lake grid. I like grafting directly in the grid's cell cups and using the brown and yellow cell holders. Then I can use the roller cages at any stage once they are capped.
    I still use the grid, but don't depend on it for any schedule.



    I had a hard time getting the brown cup holders to stay put. Nails didn't work, glue didn't help. Stapler was the ticket.
    Last edited by Lauri; 12-21-2012 at 06:09 PM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,662

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    ok, i've got permission for a yard for the nucs, i've got my equipment list going for queen rearing supplies,
    i've got good bees to graft from, but i still have some questions, starting with this one:

    what are the pros and cons of using a queenright hive for a cell builder?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,497

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    How do you plan on setting up the cell builder? Placing a graft above an excluder? Is there open brood up there, too?

    I elevate brood above an excluder at the start of the cell building process. 10 days later the brood is all sealed and that box becomes the cell builder, but is separated from the queen-righjt section. When I check the queenless brood before grafting, only about 20% have started cells. Not a very good average. These cells are removed and my graft is added. Then I get 90% or more acceptance.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dexter, Missouri USA
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    A pro would be a constantly laying queen to keep up the population of the cell builder, without having to add brood. You'll want to use a brand new queen in the queen right builder, otherwise it's likely you'll lose her. I've lost some really good queens with queen right builders, as I use some of my best colonies to build cells. For some reason, when the broodnest is segregated by an excluder, it alters their behavior. It seems the queen will slim down in preparation for swarming(cease egg laying). Shortly after that, she'll vanish with part of the population. Keep a close eye on her.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,662

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    thanks for the replies.

    i am only going to attempt about a dozen cells at a time, and probably only do 2 or3 rounds.

    with such few cells per round, is it necessary to have such a big cell building colony?

    i was hoping to pack a five frame nuc box full of nurse bees, with capped brood, honey, pollen, and a feeder. and then start a nuc or two out of those after the building is done.

    mp, are you saying that acceptance is better if all the brood is capped in the cell building part (above the excluder) before you introduce your graft?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,497

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    On grafting day I separate the queen-right and queen-less sections, shaking the nurse bees from the queen-right into cell builder. Add graft in afternoon. I want the only larvae in the hopelessly queen-less cell builder to be my grafts.

    I also want the cell builder packed with nurse bees...and field bees.

    Got Bees?


  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, OH
    Posts
    2,721

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    If that's what's needed for a cell builder, I think I'm out of luck.
    Go to Heaven for the climate, go to Hell for the company. -Mark Twain

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,662

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    understood michael, i think. 10 days before grafting you move frames of brood up above an excluder and let that brood become capped. on grafting day, you physically remove this box that was above the excluder, (destroy any queen cells that may have been started?), and shake in more nurse bees, thus creating a 'new' queenless hive (with all its brood capped) for cell building. is that about right?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  14. #34
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,103

    Thumbs Up Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    Thanks for those videos Lauri, just what I needed.
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,497

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    understood michael, i think. 10 days before grafting you move frames of brood up above an excluder and let that brood become capped. on grafting day, you physically remove this box that was above the excluder, (destroy any queen cells that may have been started?), and shake in more nurse bees, thus creating a 'new' queenless hive (with all its brood capped) for cell building. is that about right?
    Almost. The added brood is mostly sealed and emerging...over the next several days. This creates the big supply of nurse bees, especially when added to the nurse bee population already in the colony.

    Yes, you remove the cell building box, remove the queen-right colony and place it on the ground behind original stand facing the other way, and place cell builder on original stand. Cell builder gets most of the nurses and all of the field force.

    You check for swarm cells below the excluder and emergency cells above.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,662

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    got it!! thank-you michael.

    should i have a feeder on the cell builder? pollen sub?
    (i anticipate a strong flow on when i attempt this)

    to get started, i'll be using 5 frame nucs for mating.

    but if this takes off into more than a few here and there, how do you go about getting comb drawn in those mini mating nucs?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,497

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    Always feed your cell builder thin syrup, until the cells are sealed. Place a good pollen comb next to the grafts.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,662

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    can do michael, thanks.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dexter, Missouri USA
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    That's a nice looking builder MP. Well done.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: first attempt at queenrearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    On grafting day I separate the queen-right and queen-less sections, shaking the nurse bees from the queen-right into cell builder. Add graft in afternoon. I want the only larvae in the hopelessly queen-less cell builder to be my grafts.

    I also want the cell builder packed with nurse bees...and field bees.

    Got Bees?

    Hold the fort! Thats the best cell builder I've seen in, well, ever.

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