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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ft Myers, Fl 33967
    Posts
    211

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    I run a small operation in SW Florida and make my own boxes and frames. I used to own and run a cabinet shop here until the bottom fell out. I did a lot of testing on glues and Titebond came out on top every time. Titebond III is their waterproof glue. Any of them will break the wood before they break the glue IF the joint is built properly. IE a tight fit. I use a single 18 ga. nail in an air nailer on each joint just to hold things in place until the glue dries.
    Regards
    Joe

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    6,295

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    Joe: That is my thinking on a frame joint as well. seems like if it is done right the wood should break before the joint separates. Is there such a thing as a joint with so little tolerance in the fit that it becomes weaker because it holds less glue?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,932

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    I think of staples as just clamps you just leave in the joint after the glue dries. (Titebond III of course).

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ft Myers, Fl 33967
    Posts
    211

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    Jim
    There has been an ongoing debate about "joint starvation" for a long time. My personal opinion is that the glue is actually absorbed into the wood when it is applied and cannot be forced out completely by a tight fit. In a proper joint, the joint line cannot be seen, only where the grain of the wood changes can the joint be seen. This tight a joint is extremely strong. I made a house full of Cherry cabinets 5 years ago out of rips that varied from 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" wide and up to 8 ft long. To date, not one of the joints has come apart and only one 8 ft pantry door has warped (1/4"). These butt joints were clamped hard and held for 24 hours.
    Regards
    Joe

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hiltons,Virginia
    Posts
    148

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    I agree titebond is as good as it gets.I tell all my customers you may break one of my frames but you will not pull them apart.
    John

    www.poorvalleybeefarm.com

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    York, York County, SC
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    Just to send this to the top...

    I have been assembling more frames than I care to admit to. Here is what I have done. Im using the narrow crown 1" staple.

    1. No glue on the bottom - 1 staple each end, straight down into the end bar.
    2. Glue on both surfaces of the top bar joint, and two staggered staples straight down into the end bar.
    3. One staple at a slight angle from the end bar into the top bar in the solid side (opposite from the capture strip)

    That's it. So far the recipe works.

    Dan

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    6,133

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    Have you tested that bottom bar after it has been propolized for a few years to the topbar below?


    QUOTE=thesecurityeagle;1528540]Just to send this to the top...


    I have been assembling more frames than I care to admit to. Here is what I have done. Im using the narrow crown 1" staple.

    1. No glue on the bottom - 1 staple each end, straight down into the end bar.
    2. Glue on both surfaces of the top bar joint, and two staggered staples straight down into the end bar.
    3. One staple at a slight angle from the end bar into the top bar in the solid side (opposite from the capture strip)

    That's it. So far the recipe works.

    Dan[/QUOTE]

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    York, York County, SC
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    I have not had any issues, my dimensions don't leave me with propolis, I get bridge comb. The staple gives me good clamping force. Perhaps I might be riding a time bomb but so far, its not been an issue.
    Last edited by HarryVanderpool; 03-29-2017 at 06:09 AM. Reason: overquoting

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    127

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    We assemble thousands of frames a year with our own custom built frame assembly machines. The issue that could be happening in what you are seeing with ML frames is that they are running them through their machine, boxing them and dumping them in a cold warehouse before the glue has cured so it never really bonds the wood properly (there are some other possibilities as well, but that is the first thing I would question.) The staples have some resin glue on them which activates with friction on stapling, but that may not be enough to keep them together through certain types of uncappers. Out of curiosity, did they not also run a staple horizontally through the end bar into the top bar under the top bar rest or if they did, was that that staple too narrow so it simply pinched together into the top bar groove and never hit any wood (that is an issue we've seen with some of theirs as well in the past since their top bars are typically thinner than Dadants as I recall).
    Rich
    Capital Bee Supply
    Last edited by HarryVanderpool; 03-29-2017 at 06:07 AM. Reason: overquoting
    www.capitalbeesupply.com
    Manufacturers and Purveyors of Fine Beekeeping Equipment

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Spokane, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,097

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    Mann lake has a good frame out there. They have fixed their problems.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,591

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    Shastina, has a really nice frame out from what I've been told.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    3,825

    Default Re: Looking for some New Wood Frame assembly advice?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAK View Post
    Mann lake has a good frame out there. They have fixed their problems.
    Perhaps now, but several years ago their frames were failing badly (I still have many in my operation). Top bar would pull right off. I've been tempted to send them back a case or two of their failed frames so they can see the junk that they were selling.
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

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