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  1. #41
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    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Hmmm... well I can't speak for what passes for budget grade in where you are, but over here, I'd rather pay more and get frames that are not budget grade. .45 does seem rather cheap, there might be a reason for that.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Western Bee Supply is ridiculously inexpensive to start with, and I've gotten a few budget frames from them before. I could have promised they were commercial, not budget. I was/am quite pleased.

  3. #43
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by westernbeekeeper View Post
    This is bleach off the shelf at Walmart.
    If I was going to bleach something I would be looking for something like HTH or a shock at a pool supply. Once chlorine is in solution it gasses out pretty quickly.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
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    2,435

    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Hmmm... .45 does seem rather cheap, there might be a reason for that.

    Western frames are not too bad, use Titebond III for sure keep them together.
    President, San Francisco Beekeepers Association
    www.habitatforhoneybees.org

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    San Mateo, Ca, USA
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    408

    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    would sanding make a difference (used as a step before bleaching)? I would think it would remove the exposed areas that are havens for bateria and perhaps remove a lot of the crannies

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, NH
    Posts
    504

    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    You are getting excellent advice here. Although AFB may be "rare" (as one poster put it), it certainly isn't so rare that you shouldn't consider it. Used gear is like a used car...sometimes it _was_ only driven by an old lady back and forth to church on Sundays....but there is some series of events that made them available to you, and there is simply no way of knowing....for all you know, the previous owner _started_ to clean this stuff up, and the frames with the missing combs are the ones that had visible AFB.

    If irradiation is not available (I would contact the local bee club...I know that my father in law was a high school teacher in that area, and the university at Laramie had some kind of reactor for experiments at least), then I would burn them.

    I believe the research out of Australia is that foundation made from AFB contaminated wax was safe (not hot enough to kill the spores, but must have physically encapsulated them well enough), and I would expect that paraffin dipping would work as
    ...but then, as has been said, you still have some used frames (with a lot of your labor into them).


    Free shipping is great if you can get it, but we can get full pallets delivered from 3 hours away for about $50, and $50 spread out over 1-2,000lbs is cheap. Look into humble abodes (which is far from you) or someplace else (closer) that is really manufacturing the stuff...I think we pay .56/frame (unassembled), and can easily fit 100 deep boxes and 1000 frames on a pallet.

    Hot wax wont kill AFB it simply ENCAPSULATES it beekeepers in NEW ZELAND have excused this method as unreliable and scorch the boxes is not a 100%



    bee happy jIM 134
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
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    1,693

    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by BayHighlandBees View Post
    would sanding make a difference (used as a step before bleaching)? I would think it would remove the exposed areas that are havens for bateria and perhaps remove a lot of the crannies
    That would probably make it not worth it to me to reuse them. Thanks though!

  8. #48
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by BayHighlandBees View Post
    would sanding make a difference (used as a step before bleaching)? I would think it would remove the exposed areas that are havens for bateria and perhaps remove a lot of the crannies
    I think the cleaning step before bleaching is a real bad idea. This is were the majority of the spores are going to be exposed to the environment.
    My line of thinking is the frames should be dunked in bleach or lye untouched, then scrapped clean and then dunked in another tank of bleach or lye. The scrappings should be burned. Sanding would be the worst.

    Has anyone ever painted frames to reclaim them?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,747

    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    ben, did your dept of ag have an opinion on beltsville's info about heat sterilization?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #50
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    May 2012
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    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    ben, did your dept of ag have an opinion on beltsville's info about heat sterilization?
    Not that I know of.

  11. #51
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    May 2012
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    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted



    I was able to track all this old equipment back to the original owner. I called him and asked him about the history of this equipment: disease, etc. He said, "Why yes, there was AFB in 3 out of those 90 hives. I treated them and it went away; I'd reuse it all if I were you." But I don't want a big risk, so I will just use the boxes, covers, and bottom boards, but I will pitch/burn the frames. Oh well, better safe than sorry.

  12. #52
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    May 2011
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    San Francisco, CA
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    To bad he didn't mark the AFB hives, what a waist!
    President, San Francisco Beekeepers Association
    www.habitatforhoneybees.org

  13. #53
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    May 2012
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    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie B View Post
    To bad he didn't mark the AFB hives, what a waste!
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought the same thing.

  14. #54
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by westernbeekeeper View Post
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought the same thing.
    It is just a question:
    Why do you think that after all you did you have any more exposure to AFB spores then me for instance?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #55
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    May 2012
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    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    It is just a question:
    Why do you think that after all you did you have any more exposure to AFB spores then me for instance?
    Sorry, Acebird, I'm not understanding your question. Maybe clarify? Thanks!

  16. #56
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    It sounds like you are going to pitch all the frames because the guy said there was AFB in 3 out of 90 hives. Maybe I am wrong but it doesn't sound like a big risk.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,551

    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    The way I look at it 3 out of a thousand is a lot. The fact that the guy even admitted he had that much would make me a little suspicious.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  18. #58
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    May 2012
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    The way I look at it 3 out of a thousand is a lot. The fact that the guy even admitted he had that much would make me a little suspicious.
    This was also my line of thought.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Bleach for combless frame sterilization/disinfection; opinions wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    The way I look at it 3 out of a thousand is a lot.
    Was it all in one season? Even if it was, westernbeekeeper stripped the frames and bleach them. How many spores are left vs anybodies hive who doesn't have an AFB infection? How many of the said frames would end up in any particular hive. Two, maybe three? It might only be one.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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