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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,200

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Doing something w/out external direction gives one plenty of time to develope bad habits.

    My Dad once said "Don't take driving lessons from a race car driver that crashes." Whether that fits or not, I'm not sure.

    As an employer, not really, I don't employ anyone, I would rather have an interested blank slate than someoner w/ a little book learning who wants to know the why of every move. I had a helper this past Summer and he was good at helping and waited until the work was done to discuss what we did and what we saw. That was good and helpful.

    Whether the Penn State Forum is worth the cost is up to the user. I sure hope you all send Barry 10% of the Penn State cost to support beesource.com so it will continue to be here for our education and entertainment.

    SUPPORT beesource.com. !!
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    2,835

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Mark, I agree that tuition or cost helps reduce the casually interested.

    Specifically in regard tot he II courses I think it is more of an issue of providing quality training at an arguably low price. I am not certain what tuition at U.N.R. is not. it changes all the time. but I think we are somewhere up around $200 or so per credit. I think that covers 30 hours of classroom instruction. One of the II courses is 4 days. So $425 for possibly 32 hours of instruction.

    Just a comparison to show that the price may not really be that far out of line. and it may be that some portion of this course offering is running on a grant or some other funding.

    I don't think the cost of the II courses are set to discourage the curious as much as they are set to assure quality in the instruction.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Well said and informative. I have no personal knowledge of course costs and instructors fees. I went to college as a test of my own seriousness in persuing beekeeping as a means of selfsupport. So I base my understanding on that, whether that is the case for anyone else I have no idea.

    Back when I went to school, back in the dark ages, college was affordable, for me and my wife, because we were able to get Pell Grants, student loans, and work study. Are such things not available today? It took us a while to repay our loans, but we never felt likeanything was going to be foreclosed on to reclaim the debt owed.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,018

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Ace, you changed the method of teaching when you went from book to video.
    Yes, by a huge amount. You not only get see and hear from the video you get motion at 25 frames a second. You can get see and hear from a narrated book while reading along. You remember doing that in school? It still won't equal video in learning retention because it lacks motion.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,018

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    It took us a while to repay our loans, but we never felt likeanything was going to be foreclosed on to reclaim the debt owed.
    That is because when you finished your degree there was other opportunity for you if by some chance you really didn't take to beekeeping. Today, the unprivileged student is 200,000 dollars in debt and may have no job offers at all when he/she graduates. You can capitalize the loans only so long and that is just digging a hole deeper anyway.
    I came out of school with a degree is building construction during the oil embargo. No construction jobs anywhere but I was able to move to Connecticut and learn textile automation and machine design. Yes, from the bottom up and my questions were welcomed.
    If you are looking for a brainless monkey to help you with the monkey work that is one thing. If you are looking for someone that can think on there own and take over the monkey work so all you have to do is manage the people and grow your business, that is another. The person who can take over for you is not a monkey see, monkey do type of individual.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,835

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Mark, Yes grants loans and work study are still alive and well. Ace nails it on the opportunity though. College graduates are leaving school to live with their parents and struggle to pay off any loans with no income. Many of the students I see every day are outright afraid of graduating. they are extending their studies to delay repayment of student loans.
    There are ways through all things and for students today there are ways. not preferable by any means. but they are hanging on and college enrollment is actually up by 15% over last year at our University. Another side effect of a bad economy. retention of new students is also up. It's harder to leave when you have nowhere to go.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,200

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    For sure Brian. But the guy who will take over any current commercial operation probably is already able to do the work intelligently w/ understanding and insight and it's just a matter of conforming to the style and direction of thge beekeeper himself.

    First I want someone who can work and has a brain, able to see when something is wrong and able to fix it or bring it to my attention.

    U gotta know youir employees and their limitations, and then supervise them. Trust but verify. and still mistakes will bve made, but hopefully not fatal ones. Covers get left partially left off, here and there, after feeding syrup. Stuff happens. You gotta be able to roll w/ it.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
    Posts
    1,194

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Glad i did not go to college would of been a wast of money for me{to much party thats for sure}
    I learned the restaurant thing hands on and been at it since i was 12 and have owned 3 the one i have now is 22 years old and doing great so thats the way i'm going with beekeeping hand on learn buy my mistakes. I make more then the kids{PENN STATE}that work for me when they graduate if they graduate most not all but most and i made money as i learned. Now my kid is going to go to college next year so i guess it's
    time for me to pay but hopefuly she'll do better then me and if not well there's the restaurant allways make money how else could i pay for this hobby?
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 31 hives==== T{OAV}

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Phoenixville, PA
    Posts
    579

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    "Online" and "Beekeeping Course" don't belong in the same sentence. Beekeeping is hands on and no course will teach near as as much as you will learn from your own hive. Beyond that, I can't imagine any online course can provide more than you can find here or through Google.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,678

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by throrope View Post
    Beyond that, I can't imagine any online course can provide more than you can find here or through Google.
    Some people are overwhelmed by the multitude of opinions on how to do many simple tasks and welcome a place to learn that tells them "this is the way to keep bees." Paying $189 for the privilege of learning what for many of us is a hobby has to do with how the course is valued by the public at large.

    I am not aware of any bee schools operating in the past in my area. If people nearby wanted to take a course to learn about beekeeping, then they'd have few options but to travel, take a course like the Penn State one or Dave Tarpy's NC State BEES program, or do without.

    I started by just diving in and keeping a hive - I wish now that I had known a bit more how little I knew then. Just maybe I'd be a better beekeeper.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,018

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    First I want someone who can work and has a brain, able to see when something is wrong and able to fix it or bring it to my attention.
    Then you got to grin and bear all the stupid questions that cost you time. Trust me on this one. I volunteered for the internships every year (no one else would do it) I could tell in a heartbeat which students were interested in an engineering carrier or even technical carrier or just there to goof off. An inquiring mind is going to consume your time without question. If you show patience and deal with the stupid questions you will have a believer.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
    Posts
    1,352

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dewey View Post
    Some people are overwhelmed by the multitude of opinions on how to do many simple tasks and welcome a place to learn that tells them "this is the way to keep bees." Paying $189 for the privilege of learning what for many of us is a hobby has to do with how the course is valued by the public at large.
    SOOOO that is the point. Get a book HOW TO KEEP BEES Mr Bush"s book is a good place to start.
    Im really not that serious

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,277

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    +10
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,200

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Then you got to grin and bear all the stupid questions that cost you time.
    Isn't that what I am doing here on beesource? Friends wonder why I do it. Must be filling some need, I guess. Attention probably.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,589

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Then you got to grin and bear all the stupid questions...
    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Isn't that what I am doing here on beesource?
    Yes, but sometimes you seem to be distracted by legitimate questions.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,200

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Ha,ha, BeeCurious. Not to mention legitimate work.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,018

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Isn't that what I am doing here on beesource?
    Yes, very much so. That is why I don't understand why you are reluctant to do it in the work place where eventually it would benefit you more in the long run.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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