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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,277

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    i haven't been to a formal class on beekeeping, but i did get a chance to assist working some hives with experienced beekeepers in the beginning. i have done a fair amount of reading, and i have learned alot from the good members here on beesource.

    in the end though, for me, and has been posted above by others...

    nothing compares to the time spent with the bees,

    and maybe more so the failures than the successes.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,244

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by lazy shooter View Post
    The $189.00 might be cheap. I started in beekeeping some 19 months back. The internet and a few phone calls have been the only outside assistance that I have received. My bees have survived and are finally prospering, but they did have a rough first year. I am now recovering from knee replacement surgery. As such, I won't be able to travel comfortably until after the first of the year. This spring I intend to travel and visit some beeks within a couple of hundred miles of my place. My driving expenses and motel costs for two of these trips will well exceed 189 bucks.

    Let's face the facts, some people learn well in a class room environment, others need the hands-on experience and some lack the discipline to follow instruction. There are many different types of learners. This brings to mind the old Will Rogers quote: "Some men learn by reading, some men learn by observation, the rest of them have to pee on the fence."

    I'm an engineer. I supervise drilling hostile environment oil and gas wells. My crew has two safety meeting a day at crew change. At that time we address safety concerns for the next 12 hour shift. I invite all of my crew members to please give their opinion about our upcoming chores and tasks. Before we do a major operation, we have another meeting about procedures, and once again, I ask the input of all members of the work team. Sometimes the lowest ranking person on the crew has the best solution. It has been my experience that engineers are no more dogmatic than other supervisors.
    Some good observations LS. I have often said that one of the arts of management is having the wisdom to separate the really bad ideas that come your way from the really good ones and you are right the good ones can sometimes come from the most unexpected places. So tell us who are you gonna hire LS, the guy with the degree or the guy with the dirty hands who says he sure needs a job and is willing to learn and do whatever needs to be done? Yeah I know probably an overly simple question in your line where some jobs clearly require a great deal of expertise. But havent many of the best employees started out at the very bottom and learned as they went?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    brownwood, TX, USA
    Posts
    780

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Jim:

    So tell us who are you gonna hire LS, the guy with the degree or the guy with the dirty hands who says he sure needs a job and is willing to learn and do whatever needs to be done?

    The above question is not an either/or to me. If I want an entomologist, I am probably going to hire a college graduate from an agricultural school. If I'm hiring someone to work the bees with me, I want the dirty hands, hard working guy. In the oil patch, I contract with service companies and they provide me the personnel. That being said, most of the contract employees are supervised by employees that have come up through the ranks. Some of the services, like well head testing, pressure control, casing crews, pipe thread companies, vacuum truck, rental tools, fishing hands and tools, ..... are almost always headed by non college types that learned from experience. A few of the services, such as geophysical well logging and cementing operations are headed by engineers (even then the work is done by non college personnel.) The crew, roughnecks, are provided by the drilling contractor. In reality, I don't hire anyone.

    I love the working people in the oil patch because they have a "can do" attitude. I am not exposed to whiners. Our people "man up" and do their jobs, and almost none of them have a college degree. And, yes, I listen to every **** one of them.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,458

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    You sure can tell it's the "off season" for most of us beekeepers. lol
    It is only a select few engineers (from my experience) that will actually listen to those "beneath" them AND act upon their suggestions AND give them credit (or at lest partial).
    Hat's off to you lazy shooter (and the others like you), you are one of the few I speak of.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    At UGA, taught by Keith Delaplane….at a bit $300/semester hour, this class runs about $1000. Formal, face to face class time w/lab that includes hands on with all sorts of beekeeping things, including grafting, queen rearing, hygienic testing, etc.
    Ask yourself how much time using trial and error and reading conflicting advice would you waste learning these things? Would it be worth a grand?

    ENTO 4300/6300-4300L/6300L. Bee Biology, Culture, and Management. 3 hours. 2 hours lecture and 3 hours lab per week.
    Oasis Title: BEE BIO & MGMT.
    Prerequisite: [(BIOL 1104 and BIOL 1104L or BIOL 1108-1108L) and ENTO 4000/6000-4000L/6000L] or permission of department.
    The life history, ecology, behavior, and pollinating activities of honey bees and other bees of the Southeast, including theory and practice of bee culture.
    Offered spring semester every odd-numbered year.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  6. #66
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    1,379

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    I'm with mr. Beeman on this, engineers like you, lazy shooter, are few and far between, and thanks for listening to the little guy!
    Coyote Creek Bees

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    2,280

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    ...Realizing that current methods are incorrect does not by default give us the answers. What bothers me is the hard headed determination not only for a generation but for decades that these obviously mistaken methods are defended as the way to do it.something ...
    hmmm what methods are mistaken? and what current methods are incorrect? I'll compare my winter losses to anyone's.

    Education comes in many different forms, and eveyone needs education. Whether from books, forums, videos, classroom, or hands-on experience. The best education is a combination of several methods. And it enables one to separate the wheat from the chaff. Sometimes the old ways are better, sometimes the new ways are better. Education and experience enables one to discern, and apply.
    Regards,
    Steven
    "If all you have is a hammer, the whole world is a nail." - A.H. Maslow

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    brownwood, TX, USA
    Posts
    780

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    My wife is a school superintendent in Texas. She has been in education for 40 plus years. She has a doctorate degree in statistics and is a very smart lady. I have listened to her lament about education for all those years. Public education is a paradox. On the one hand, all students are different. On the other hand, all public schools are managed at the upper most level by politicians. The politicians want a one size fits all education for the masses. Hence, the paradox mentioned above. Aside for campaigning for office, what do politicians do well?

    When it comes to adult education, such as beekeeping, each individual must act according to their capabilities and abilities. If you are a hands-on learner who has to touch and feel things to learn about them, then get your butt in an apiary and spend some time. If you are one of those people that remember everything you read, buy a book or two. There are some people that like to be lectured about everything. I have one client that works for a large oil company, and when he has a project for me, he wants me to come to his office weeks prior to a job and just lecture him and his staff for a few hours. He says, “I want the information fed to me.” Education is a “whatever works for you” thing.

    As I stated earlier, 189 bucks could be a good deal, or then it could ………………

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SNOW SHOE PA USA
    Posts
    1,195

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    You beekeepers are the best i do love the fight and sometimes i learn something thank you.
    Say hello to the bad guy!
    year five==== 31 hives==== T{OAV}

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,217

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    A newbie doesn't need any knowledge that he/she has to pay for. All the newbie needs is determination and a small investment.
    Here is my question to the forum pointed at commercial operations: Would you pay someone more that has taken this class or would you rather teach this person yourself starting at a lower wage? Once this question is answered then we can determine if the 189 bucks is worth it.
    I'd rather have someone who will do what I ask of them w/out a lot of questions. Someone who knows nothing and is willing to work is what is often needed more than anything else.

    I just spent the last four days throwing pollen patties on hives w/ a friend of mine. Yesterday a young guyt w/out any experience or knowledge at all helped us. Along w/ his Dad we got twice as much done.

    You can teach someone what they want to learn, but what you can't teach someone is how to work, really simply work. That is something someone comes w/.

    Many are capable, fewer are willing.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,217

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Shopping for an education is a lot like shopping for a car. Prices vary for a wide range of reasons. One example of cost of education is a course in Instrumental Insemination. U.C. Davis wants $950 for the entire course. II and Advanced II. Plus you provide your own instrument. Some students provide their own microscope. But where else are you going to get the training? And if you do get it somewhere else was it worth getting.

    On the other hand. They need to do a lot more to support that their course is with a plug nickle. I want to see the results that are achieved by those that have taken the course. Do people come out of the course better than average beekeepers and if so is it $189 better?

    Those prices weed out those who aren't serious about learning and using the knowledge.

    Everybody pays for their education one way or the other. Some of us take longer to learn. Continuing education programs go on throughout one's life.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,217

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    I am only going to make two comments, then back out of this discussion.

    1. If newbees do not need education, then why would anyone go to college.

    2. If you can learn everything by experimenting and reading, I really want to talk to my Doctor, the next time I visit him. How did he become qualified to diagonose and treat me.

    cchoganjr
    College can give you an indication of serious intent. Once the Diploma is in hand the real education begins. Leastwise that's what I found out w/ my AAS in Commercial Beekeeping.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,217

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by sfisher View Post
    All Beekeepers that I have meet so far have been more than happy to teach for free!
    I just forgot to send u a bill Steven. What's your address? lol
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,027

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    but what you can't teach someone is how to work,
    My father taught me and I am 1 out of 6 kids. Some of it comes within but some of it is passed down.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,027

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Those prices weed out those who aren't serious about learning and using the knowledge.
    You can't be serious Mark. We live in an area that is surrounded by ivy league colleges. Do you seriously believe the majority of the students are serous about learning? It is a party at their parents expense and the sad part is their parents are happy to send them away. The ones that are serious are the ones that don't have too many options.
    Private colleges are businesses so pricing has to do with what the market will bear. Nothing more nothing less.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    brownwood, TX, USA
    Posts
    780

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    "Here is my question to the forum pointed at commercial operations: Would you pay someone more that has taken this class or would you rather teach this person yourself starting at a lower wage? Once this question is answered then we can determine if the 189 bucks is worth it."

    Gee Ace, I didn't realize that you intended to pad your resume enough with this one course for 189 bucks to significantly increase your annual income. Hell, it's 189 bucks, one doesn't have to take a second mortgage on their home for this amount of bucks. For 189 bucks, I would think one should expect some personal enlightenment. Nothing more.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,027

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by lazy shooter View Post
    For 189 bucks, I would think one should expect some personal enlightenment. Nothing more.
    That is always an option but I am not sure I would personally be enlightened even if it was for 20 bucks.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,589

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I am not sure I would personally be enlightened even if it was for 20 bucks.
    "Stop making sense Making sense."


    Would you go for a dime's worth?
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,217

    Default Re: Afordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    You can't be serious Mark. We live in an area that is surrounded by ivy league colleges. Do you seriously believe the majority of the students are serous about learning? It is a party at their parents expense and the sad part is their parents are happy to send them away. The ones that are serious are the ones that don't have too many options.
    Private colleges are businesses so pricing has to do with what the market will bear. Nothing more nothing less.
    I was refering to the Instrumental Insemination Classes which DanielY refered to.

    Ask my daughter. She has pretty much put herself through college w/ Scholorships and Loans, not from Mom and Dad. But, just like her Mom and Dad did.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,836

    Default Re: Affordable beekeeping

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Daniel explained how people learn. It is not the book that matters it is the written language that may or may not get passed on to the reader. Visual aids have always been used. In a book all you can illustrate is a still photo or a sketch. A book cannot compete with the internet that is capable of video illustration and sound when it comes to learning.
    Ace, you changed the method of teaching when you went from book to video.

    And there are hundreds of ways people learn. but one primary one is this.

    When learning see it write it and then speak it. this gives your brain three sensory avenues in which to absorb the information. Then there is the development of skills and application of that information which is separate.

    Many people claim that hands on learning works best for them. This is partially due to combining the seeing. hearing and speaking along with the application and practice at the basic skill all in one.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

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