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Thread: Honeybee math ?

  1. #1
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    Default Honeybee math ?

    Getting started on 2013 prototypes. Trying to figure size.

    How many cells are needed for queen to lay continuously ?

    Say 3k eggs per day x 21 days = 63k cells
    + food storage for brood, another 25k sound close ? = 88k cells, round up to 100k

    Assuming small cell, aprox. how many sq/ft of comb is that ?
    Anything I'm missing ?

    Cheers,
    Drew

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    As I recall in "Increase Essentials",which is a very good read, the author says there are about 6400 cells in a deep frame, and he estimates 4800 cells are used for brood. I think your figures of 3K a day are a bit high, I see 1.5-2K quoted often; That is assuming there is a cluster big enough to cover those cells. If you can find a Maryland beekeeper and use a brood chamber that he recommends it would be a good place to start - then keep good records and adapt as you see fit. If you can afford it buy spare frames and boxes ahead of time.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    ya, too many factors
    the math may add up, but the bees dont seem to always follow it

    every once and a while you will see something like that, and it blows you away!
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Quiney WI View Post
    As I recall in "Increase Essentials",which is a very good read, the author says there are about 6400 cells in a deep frame, and he estimates 4800 cells are used for brood. I think your figures of 3K a day are a bit high, I see 1.5-2K quoted often; That is assuming there is a cluster big enough to cover those cells. If you can find a Maryland beekeeper and use a brood chamber that he recommends it would be a good place to start - then keep good records and adapt as you see fit. If you can afford it buy spare frames and boxes ahead of time.
    Did the bees read the same book you are reading I hope so.




    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryland Beekeeper View Post
    Getting started on 2013 prototypes. Trying to figure size.

    How many cells are needed for queen to lay continuously ?

    Say 3k eggs per day x 21 days = 63k cells
    + food storage for brood, another 25k sound close ? = 88k cells, round up to 100k

    Assuming small cell, aprox. how many sq/ft of comb is that ?
    Anything I'm missing ?

    Cheers,
    Drew

    Where are you getting your queens that can lay 3k eggs per day I like about 75 -100 queens the av. is more like 1000 to 1200 @ day and you need a good honey flow on to do it.


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryland Beekeeper View Post
    Getting started on 2013 prototypes. Trying to figure size.
    Prototypes of what? Something different to the norm or standard boxes?

    The others have pretty much covered the situation regarding egg laying rates etc but just one more point, with regard to cell space it's not just quantity but position. There are patterns of expansion which I find the bees will tend to follow in preference to filling one box wall to wall before moving into the next one. At the end of the year the result may appear to be much the same but the rythm of build up could be quite different. Adrian mentioned building your beekeeping around local experience; wise words.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Thankx for the replies. My brood chamber is 48"t x 18"d x ?w. The ? is what I'm looking for help with. To restate another way, my frames are 4' x 18", how many I'll need is the ?

    Cheers,
    Drew

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Jim 134, my bees don't read books because they spend too much time texting on there smallcell phones...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    One egg per minute for 24 hours is 1440. double that to one egg every 30 seconds and you have 2880. 4000 eggs a day works out to about one egg every 20 seconds or a bit longer. I have seen my queen fill 7 frames in 5 days. With a total of 14 frames of brood in the hive at one time. Assuming that is about 4000 eggs per frames and at most she had 21 days to accomplish that. This queen had to have laid an egg every 0.54 minutes over a 3 week period. or 2666 eggs per day.

    my estimate would be that there where a lot more than 4000 eggs per frames as well. She was filling cells as soon as they where started. cells wall less than 1/8 tall had an egg laid in them.

    As this brood emerged the bees filled the cells with nectar.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryland Beekeeper View Post
    my frames are 4' x 18", how many I'll need is the ?
    Beyond me.

    But I'm looking forward to see you upload a video demonstrating your management techniques.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Your frames at 25 cells per sq inch have 3600 cells per frame. given that I have seen a queen lay 56000 eggs at least in 21 days you would need 16 frames of this size.

    This allows no room for cells that will be filled with pollen nectar or for drone brood.

    From what I saw the queen will lay in a freshly drawn cell but as soon as that bee emerges the bees sill it with nectar. so when the queen returns in 21 days she no longer has a cell to lay in in that location. I have no idea how long you can keep a queen laying at this rate. Or what other management methods it will require. constantly adding empty cells for example.

    If you look into brood production a little further you will find that the bees do have some degree or regulation on just how much brood is produced.

    The best I got was 14 frames filled. I then stopped trying to push the queen for brood production.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Your frames at 25 cells per sq inch have 3600 cells per frame.
    Not sure about the maths here. 48"X18" X two sides is considerably larger than you're suggesting. Unless I've missed something in the US to UK translation.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Your right Roland I was reading it as 4" not '. My eyes are not so good at 5 a.m

    4 feet long would require a little more than 1 frame if they draw comb on both sides of the frame.

    At 25 cells per square inch you would get 43,200 cells per frame. So call it a frame and a half.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Your right Roland I was reading it as 4" not '. My eyes are not so good at 5 a.m

    4 feet long would require a little more than 1 frame if they draw comb on both sides of the frame.

    At 25 cells per square inch you would get 43,200 cells per frame. So call it a frame and a half.
    That's what I thought you'd done... but it's a slow day here. Sorry!
    There's a great photo on the web somewhere -I thought that it was on Dave Cushman's site, of a huge frame from an old Polish hive but I just can't seem to find it to link at the moment.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Much oblige, that's about what I came up with.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Honeybee math ?

    Michael Palmer made a very important observation on another thread recently about three combs being better than two in mating nucs; transferable knowledge. Worth thinking about.

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