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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldforte View Post
    Looking through one cell of a foundation... from one side you see an inverted Y ...looking through the other side you see a normal Y.
    It has been said that the inverted side always faces the center of the hive in a naturally formed comb without a starting foundation.
    Is this true? And is it true that in a bee made comb you see the same inverted and normal Y?
    http://www.beesource.com/point-of-vi...to-beekeeping/


    IMHO Bee have bee doing this for 1000in's of year's




    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  2. #22
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    Feb 2012
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    Hartford, CT
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Hexagon is the most efficient shape for the bees' living and storing of food. It also provides maximum strength.

    .honeycomb-pattern.gif

  3. #23
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    May 2008
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    I read something like this recently, don't remember where. It stated the bees made the cells more round but they become flat where they meat each other. Since the wax isn't really fluid I don't know if its correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyson Kaiser View Post
    This, absolutely. Bees do NOT make hexagonal cells, it a process called tessellation. Consider soap bubbles piling up against each other, they will form sides where they meet and this will determine the shape of each soap bubble. Bee cells are round, look at one without considering the sides where they butt up against each other- round as Nature gets. The placement of the "y" might have more to do with the bottom of the cell as it relates to the other side of the comb, the bubble bottom of one side of the cell fitting in the hollow on the other side of the comb in a staggered formation. Looking at a cross-section of comb could possibly show this. It's more about economy of space and careful use of resources than creating pretty 6-sided cells. And tessellation.

    Tyson
    Dan

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    A time lapse camera could solve all the guess work.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #25
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    nashville tn usa
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    If is true about the Y shape at the bottom of the cell....and it is... the bees started the cell in a hex shape....not round and then pushed together...unless they start with a hex...then make it round...then push it together...think they are lot smarter than that.

  6. #26
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    Nov 2012
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    Los Angeles, California, USA
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    The y shape is the bottom of the other side of the comb, between cells. It simply reflects the tessellation pattern, just through the other side and staggered so that from the cell you are looking it fits a corresponding hollow created by the other side. If you were to transpose both sides in one view, the cells wouldn't line up together, they would be offset by half both longitudinal and latitudinal. I'm really wishing I had some animation skills because I can see it in my head fine but have a hell of a time explaining it.

    Another way to think of tessellation is picture holding a huge number of drinking straws in one fist. In between the straws the hexagonal shape will take place, but not within the straws, which remain round. Bees are really just filling in the space between the cells, not creating hexagons.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyson Kaiser View Post
    Bees are really just filling in the space between the cells, not creating hexagons.
    I don't think so.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I don't think so.
    Oh. Why?

  9. #29
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I don't think so.
    Brian, r u saying that you believe that the interior of each cell is hexagonal and not round?
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 12-01-2012 at 09:17 PM.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  10. #30
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I don't think so.
    Do we really need "I don't think so" or "I think so"? Cut the cell in half from a piece of comb and look at it. You won't have to "think" then. How hard can that be for an engineer?
    Regards, Barry

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Or simply look at dry pollen pellets from cells in the comb and you will see how round they are, not hexagonal.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  12. #32
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Yes Mark.
    http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/v...eadHive014.jpg
    I don't know if you can magnify this photo but I can and the cells that were used for brood are round but the cell was first made hexagon shape like the ones next to the brood used for honey storage. If the bees use the cells for brood they thicken the walls and fill in the apex's but it had to start out hexagon shape or there would be air voids between adjacent cells.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    There is structurally no difference between brood cells and honey cells. If there were different cells in a beehive bees wouldn't use them interchangebly, would they?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  14. #34
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    nashville tn usa
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    www.ask.com/wiki/Tessellation
    this definition does not explain how a circle is transformed into a hex shape. It just defines any shaped polygon that completely covers a plane...without spaces inbetween. If the Y pattern is formed at the bottom of the cell....the bees started the cell with sides.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldforte View Post
    www.ask.com/wiki/Tessellation
    this definition does not explain how a circle is transformed into a hex shape. It just defines any shaped polygon that completely covers a plane...without spaces inbetween
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessellation
    The wiki uses comb as a natural example of tessellation.

    I think of it like this: bees are creating a space for holding brood, pollen etc. the space they are making can be considered the positive space, the area they are intentionally making. The spaces around those spaces is the negative space, not in the sence that it is useless, but that that it is the area between the intentional spaces, which are round.

    I think I'd like to get some fresh comb today a loupe and look hard into a cell being built. If what you say about them starting with a hexagon and them turning into a round space then hexagonal walls should be visible in the unfinished cells.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Do we really need "I don't think so" or "I think so"? Cut the cell in half from a piece of comb and look at it. You won't have to "think" then. How hard can that be for an engineer?
    Barry......
    That is to simple for (Acebird) the engineer




    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Ehh! They are Italians they only have six legs. That means they can only count to six for those that are Italian.
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  18. #38
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    Aug 2012
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    Creston bc canada
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    Well , I'm sitting here with a peice of empty comb in front of me , in fact , I just took a close up of it to share.

    I can clearly see the flat sides from top to bottom , so it is definitely hexagonal , not "round but appearing hexagonal" as some suggest.

    It started out hexagonal at the bottom , and ended up hexagonal at the top.

    And I have no hexagonal bees.

    Maybe nobody told my bees they are doing it wrong.

    017.jpg

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    There you go, issue closed!!
    Regards, Barry

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Do you know why bees form hexagon shaped cells?

    I have heard so many explanations for this over many many years I cannot remember all of them. One thing that is always consistent its that it is an efficient use of material to gain strength and minimize loss of storage space. Man does not copy it for water or sewer pipes because we are not filling water and sewer pipes with something and storing it stacked up on shelves. Water pipes have there pour pose and need to withstand stresses they are subjected to. a round pipe is more suited to that. such as not crushing due to compaction of soil over them as heavy equipment drives over. Not bursting at 60 P.S.I which is what a typical home water pressure is. Honey comb is not subjected to just weight from the side or even pressure from inside as much as it is subjected to pressure from every side. It also needs to withstand the force of gravity on the contents it contains as well as the contents of every cell around it. This si a subject of energy transferance. It is interesting to see how the hex works in regard to this. a circle stacked on a circle for example is transferring all the pressure of it's weight on a very then point on any circle under it. A circle that is set between two circles below it is transferring its weight to two small strips one to each circle below it. But a hex is actually transferring it's weight to two other cells but across a broad surface on each. This means much thinner walls can support the same weight. IT also has another interest transferance effect in that the weight of combs above are not on the cell directly below. but that pressure is actually sread aut across the comb at an angle These things we know. but how the bee comes to knowing it or using it, I have heard many many reasons. it is a result of them trying to make a circle and having to find some answer for the empty spaces. I have heard it is the result of them laying out the footprint of the next cell with their front legs. that shortest distance from foot to foot is a straight line. But my favorite is that it is their punishment for having ticked off some god or another. that is the one I am sticking with. Like the spider is the result of a maiden more fair than Athena forever cursed to weave the finest of thread.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

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