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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Farmington, NM
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    742

    Default Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Are Dadants and Mann Lakes frame spacers the same? They look similar in their magazines, but can't tell for sure. If they are different what's your opinion them.
    Plant Hardiness Zone 6B, 5300 ft., Bee Zone A/B, Proverbs 24:13
    https://www.facebook.com/mobileprotection#!/2RBeeFarm

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Farmington, NM
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    742

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Don't like the 666 post number above so this makes it 667
    Plant Hardiness Zone 6B, 5300 ft., Bee Zone A/B, Proverbs 24:13
    https://www.facebook.com/mobileprotection#!/2RBeeFarm

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Nicosia, Cyprus
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    so what is the problem with 666? it is only symbolic

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    In answer to your question, I have used them from both manufacturer's and see no difference. We run 9 frame spacers in most of our honey supers.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    599

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    What about running 9 frames in the brood box?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Farmington, NM
    Posts
    742

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    As for me... I'm only going to run 9 in the honey supers not messin with the brood chambers.
    Plant Hardiness Zone 6B, 5300 ft., Bee Zone A/B, Proverbs 24:13
    https://www.facebook.com/mobileprotection#!/2RBeeFarm

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,572

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Frames in the brood boxes should be pushed tightly together. Spacing them out, in my experience, causes problems with bridge comb, excessively thick storage comb at the top, and drone comb scattered around the brood area.

    If you want to use 9 frames in a 10 frame box, push them together tightly. Some commercial outfits do this, I think, because the extra space makes it easy to spread the frames out when inspecting and saves time.

    My brother used a spacer for a few years and ended up with a terrible mess, almost impossible to get the frames out due to lumpy comb.

    Peter

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    599

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    I have been running 9 frames in the brood box and keeping them pushed tight together. I just ordered a 9 frame spacer tool and was going to use that for aligning them. I guess I will save it for the supers....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,945

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Once you have drawn comb, use 8 frame spacers in your 10 frame honey supers and you will see how fast and easy it is to uncap frames. If you use foundation you cannot use them, as the bees will drop additional comb between the frames. I know Kelly sells the 8 frame spacers, don't know if any others do.

    cchoganjr

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    9 frames in honey supers tends to be more standard than using 8 where we are. We do use a some 8 frame spacers but only on a very strong honey flow. If not the bees tend to attach a lot of brace combs which can get messy. I realize in some areas thats not an issue.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    10,151

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    If you use foundation you cannot use them,
    I think you mean undrawn foundation as opposed to natural drawn frames.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,945

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Of course. Is there any other kind of foundation except undrawn. Foundation is a sheet that bees start from to make drawn frames. If they are natural drawn then they are no longer foundation, but are drawn frames.

    cchoganjr

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    10,151

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    Is there any other kind of foundation except undrawn.

    cchoganjr
    No, but there is drawn frames that use foundation. So if I have drawn frames that use foundation then I can use them.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,755

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    No, but there is drawn frames that use foundation. So if I have drawn frames that use foundation then I can use them.
    Can someone explain this to me?

    Anyone?
    BeeCurious
    5 hives and 8 nucs................... Trying to think inside the box...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,712

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    Can someone explain this to me? Anyone?
    Don't bother, its just typical bird poop, he is trying to interpret/improve Cleo Hogan's original comment of:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post
    Once you have drawn comb, use 8 frame spacers in your 10 frame honey supers and you will see how fast and easy it is to uncap frames. If you use foundation you cannot use them, as the bees will drop additional comb between the frames.
    Cleo was simply pointing out that the frames with only foundation simply need to be pushed together, and 8 frame spacers prevent that.


    Acebird seems focused on getting his post count to the 6,000 mark, and it doesn't much matter whether there is any real content to his posts to achieve that goal.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    1,945

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    Can someone explain this to me?

    Anyone?
    I certainly can't. Wish I could.

    cchoganjr

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,572

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    If you only have foundation, don't space the frames out and don't use 9 frames in a 10 frame box -- the bees get confused and tend to draw erratic comb. If you alternate drawn frames and frames with foundation, they tend to draw out the drawn frames much further than normal and don't do anything with the foundation, which makes if very difficult to remove the frames from the box. Normally brood frames will be drawn correctly, but that's because brood comb is drawn only to the proper depth for raising bees. Storage comb is often drawn much deeper.

    Once you have drawn comb, 9 frames in a ten frame box with extra space between the frames usually gives you frames with extra deep comb. Uncapping is much easier since there will not be any spots with the capping lower than the wooden frame, and you get at least as much honey as you would with ten frames.

    Same thing goes for foundationless frames -- if you have extra space sometimes the bees won't drawn even comb, they will draw out storage comb extra deep to fill the space, or just bridge over the empty space with bridge comb. Can be rather messy -- I've got a couple that I'll need to fix this spring.

    Peter

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Thanks Peter for taking time to explain.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
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    1,945

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    psfred.... Just a little different observation. I always use 9 frame spacers in 10 frame equipment when drawing from foundation, or 9 frame spacers (more than one) in 13 frame equipment to draw comb from foundation. True, I sometimes get a little bridgework between top bars, (not a real problem), but I have never had them to drop extra combs, and, I find that I get a better drawn comb when using spacers. I like the 9 frame spacers in the supers to give a little depth to comb as the first time I extract, the comb is fragile. The extra thickness helps prevent blowout of the comb in the extractor. Using 10 frames in the 10 frame super often makes it difficult to uncap some of the frames if they do not draw them out fully.

    I don't recommend spacers in the brood chambers, and I try to use as much drawn comb placed in 8 frame spaced supers for honey. If you are in an area of small hive beetle problems, the spacers give the beetles a place to hide from the bees, so I only use the 9 frame when drawing comb. The top bars are spaced futher apart in an 8 frame spaced super and the beetles can't hide as easily.

    But, certainly, do whatever works for you.

    cchoganjr

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    10,151

    Default Re: Spacers - 9 frame in 10 frame box

    Quote Originally Posted by psfred View Post
    If you alternate drawn frames and frames with foundation, they tend to draw out the drawn frames much further than normal and don't do anything with the foundation, which makes if very difficult to remove the frames from the box. Normally brood frames will be drawn correctly, but that's because brood comb is drawn only to the proper depth for raising bees.
    Draw your new foundation in the brood chamber and then use it for honey supers for spacing out. Brood comb is stronger.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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