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Cheaper Wood?

21K views 50 replies 17 participants last post by  Cleo C. Hogan Jr 
#1 ·
Michael Palmer has made comments about the low price he pays per board foot for hive box lumber in his area. I am not that far from him (relatively) in SE New Hampshire but can’t seem to find comparable prices to what he has mentioned in dimensioned lumber (have checked as far as southern Maine). I am able to find similar prices in rough cut green wood from local mills so I wonder if that is what anyone is using. With that being asked, follow up questions are:

Do you use rough cut green wood?
How do you treat the green wood before building boxes with it?
Do you air dry it for XX time first?
If not, is there any issue with shrinkage as the wood dries (Ie. Boxes getting to tight for frames, etc)?
Do you then use a thickness planer to finish the stock to depth?
Have you tried hemlock (lots of old barns are made from it around here)?

Any tips on cheaper wood are appreciated!
 
#35 ·
There are tables here for the area and the approximate dry time for when the wood was put up. The first link I think is better. Your tax dollars at work. I think it takes far less time than we have been guessing at.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr121.pdf
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2001/simps01c.pdf
I had to wait until I got to work to look up the link. This pretty much says what said above. The cut time is dependent on when you cut and sticker it. It has also been said that if you are using KD lumber and putting it outside in the marine environments it is going to swell pretty much back to the air dry numbers anyway. I got a moisture meter at Harbor freight and think the weigh it would be just as accurate.
 
#36 ·
I have a cypress mill near me, but I don't know the "lingo" that I should use. So how does the board foot measurement work?

If it's .80 cents a board foot, how much does it work out to per medium 8 frame super? What should I ask for when I call them up? Is there an online place that will ship bulk for a reasonable price? i.e. how much would I need to buy to make it worth while for a semi to drop it off at my door. 1000 board feet?

Thanks
 
#38 ·
i.e. how much would I need to buy to make it worth while for a semi to drop it off at my door. 1000 board feet?
Well, 1000 board feet is a bundle approx 8ft x 4ft x 32 inches high. (actual bundle dimensions will vary, but those numbers calculate to 1000 bd ft) Unless you are planning on unloading board by board, or have a forklift available, you may need to modify your plan. :lookout:

Call the mill and talk to them. Its quite possible that that may have a smaller truck that can self unload. Or they may suggest a better way.

You need to consider whether the wood is sold "dried" or whether you need to air-dry it before use.

Personally, I'd call them, and set up a visit. Go see what they have, look at a sample, and see if it will meet your expectations.
 
#39 ·
Yes, so 1x8 is 2/3 of a bdf per linear foot. Your cost per box will vary slightly by the layout you do, which is dependent on board length.
When you visit them, take some home and get to know it well before buying a 1,000 bdf.
 
#40 ·
KevinR.... I use cypress as stated above, and my experience has been, that normally it takes a 10 ft board to average getting a ten frame deep brood chamber.(sometimes you may get a box and a side or front, but on average just one box) I have mine sawed, 11 inch wide, 7/8 thick, any length. Then they compute the board feet. If you are making a 10 frame deep, and the cypress is .80 bdft, then the deep will cost (on average) about $6.00 not counting thansportation cost.For supers, you could have it sawed, 6 1/2inches wide. You should try to get it as knot free as he will sell it for .80 bdft.

I notice you are from Tipton Tn, don't know how close that is to Cadiz Ky., but my last load from there had a lot that is nonusable for boxes. Can be used for rails of bottom boards, and rails around tops. I would not buy from them again. Too many boards have a knott on the side, or splits that extend 2-4 feet on the length of the board.

cchoganjr
 
#42 ·
Cleo,
I think I would like your work. At just over or just under 6 feet per box depending on joint style your either working with very rough stock or turning out a very nice piece. I'm guessing the latter, but there is an art form to either method.
 
#43 ·
A bit on the issue of expected losses. I will not argue with Cleo on his experience at all. There is a lot of sorting that goes on before lumber goes from a mill to home depot.

As an example. I found a source for slabs of walnut burl.Now walnut burl of the correct quality sells for a lot of money. a few hundred dollars per board foot in some cases. I got 500 lbs of it for $250. After drying. cutting into usable pieces and throwing out what was not even close to good enough. I had 25 lbs of high quality maple burl. about 250 lbs of lesser grade burl and the rest was pure waste. But that 25 lbs was worth about $2000. Lots of work. two band saw blades and a whole lot of headache later. I decided it was not worth it. I have never done it again. I have paid as much as $100 for 6 cubic inches of wood. That works out to $2400 per bdf. and have no question it was worth every penny. IT was not Walnut. it was Huanguali.
http://www.chinese-furniture.com/cgi-bin/ccf.cgi?stt=stp&pgn=c_furniture/m_huanghuali.html&id=105

The piece i bought does have the ghost faces which is very expensive. but not only that but the figure was on a scale that would work for a writing pen. I produced a pen from it that I will not sell. but I do offer it for $2000 if I can locate the materials. It is limited edition gold nib fountain pen that has never been written with.

The style of pen is the Emperor and in this tradition. I named the pen Shǐ Huángdì which means First Emperor.

Just a bit of a story that shows how extreme the search for wood and what is considered waste can get.
 
#44 ·
Just as important is how they are measuring it. I was buying red oak up the road and lined up a pick up bed full. They laid it out side to side and measured across the face of the boards, multiplied it by the length. The boards were not dimensional (edges not straight) so with all the openings in the stack as measured I must have paid for ‘air boards’.
When I buy I have always had ‘one straight edge’ so I do not pick the width. You can pick minimum width but the more you spec the more the price goes up.
 
#46 ·
Saltybee...Maybe I wasn't clear. I normally get one box, and some other pieces from a 10 foot board. The cost per box is what is normally $6.00. And yes, the cypress I get is .80 per board ft, and it is rough saw, and often it is very rough. I select the better pieces for boxes, the lesser for bottom boards, tops, etc, The last source I tried turned out to be a bust. Too much of it is almost worthless. It was banded, and I did not break the bands before I loaded it and brought it home. , But, it is his loss. I won't order any more.

Someone above said go and look at it, and I second that.

cchoganjr
 
#47 ·
minz you are correct. There is a whole different ballgame about measuring wood. From one source I ordered, 11 inch wide, 7/8 thick, 10 feet long, well, they calculated those boards as 10 board feet each. When it actually contained just a little over 7.5 bdft. Some mills calculate their rough stock the same way finished lumber is calculated. A stack of 2 X 4, 10 feet long, 10 ft. wide does not contain 200 board ft.

Someone above said the price goes up as you put restrictions on what you are buying. That is very true. Cypress for .80 a board ft is no where near as good as $2.00 per board ft. But you can still come out on cypress boxes at $6.00 each.

cchoganjr
 
#48 ·
We have 2 local multy store local lumber yards, a Lowes and a Depot all within a 5 mile radius. You would not expect to find the same board called the same grade at any of the four. Each is a little different grade to grade or month to month. You have to look or get a very good price unseen.
 
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