Re-queening by Cell Introduction
I know there are advocates of re-queening by direct cell introduction.
The only scientific study I can find on line shows complete failure:
http://www.zoo3.biozentrum.uni-wuerz...upersedure.pdf
I'd like to hear the details from beekeepers that have worked out a successful system.
"Met-How" Kraig
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
Requeening with cells can work, but there's a lot of variables you have to get right, and it is different from one area to another. However in my experience anyway, it's hard to get better than a 50% success rate, although other beekeepers tell me they do better than this.
But even at 50%, it's still worth doing because it's so quick and easy.
"We don't need no education" (Pink Floyd) - Yes you do, you just used a double negative.
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
What this tells me is hives will supersede when they are darned good and ready. I know of no one who expects reliable requeening results from such a method. I have heard reports of success achieved by installing ripe queen cells in honey boxes above the brood nest midsummer but I have never tried it myself.
"Ve are too soon olt und too late schmart."- A nameless German philosopher
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
OT: What are the variables?
"Ve are too soon olt und too late schmart."- A nameless German philosopher
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
Hmmm.. I was hoping nobody would ask that.Reason being it's pretty subjective and while most things bees are easy enough to explain I think this one is about "reading" the hive and conditions.
When I've failed totally at it, is putting a cell in a hive with a young, or at least, very active queen, and at the wrong time of year.
In one place I used to work, any natural supersedure was always done st the same time of year, being early fall, as the flow was ending and just before we took the honey off. In that area it was simple enough to put a close to hatching queen cell into a hive with a 2 year old queen, at the same time we took the honey off, and get a fairly high strike rate. We put the cell right at the top of the brood nest between the top bars, but used a cell protector.
Whenever I've had virgins hatch in one of my cell finisher hives, what I do is shake everything down below the excluder, then put the hive back together and continue to use it as a finisher. But this nearly always results in supersedure there will be 2 queens for a while and the virgin (now mated) will eventually take over.
So I know that's not really a straight answer, in fact, I don't think I have a full understanding of what it takes to be fully successful at requeening with cells. But i think the basics are working in tune with what the bees are wanting to do anyway. It is nessecary to protect the cell though, for some reason even though bees are planning to supersede they will still often tear the cell down. Also, if the cell goes in and hatches immediately, it is more likely the virgin will be killed than if the cell has been in a couple of days before it hatches.
Sorry can't give an exact formula for success, those are a few rambling thoughts. But I've also found, because I've worked bees in several different places, that what works in one place may not work in another. I think people have to figure out what works locally. The good thing, is it requires very little investment, just raising some cells. 2 guys working together, one opening hives and one placing the cells, can do several hundred hives in a day.
"We don't need no education" (Pink Floyd) - Yes you do, you just used a double negative.
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
Your "rambling thoughts" are quite inciteful you have had more experience than I at attempting it. Seems like such a shot in the dark procedure; difficult to know what level of success you have had. While it may not be something I would ever have any interest in doing I can see the advantage for many if one could do it with some consistency.
"Ve are too soon olt und too late schmart."- A nameless German philosopher
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
I've done this with reasonable results. The cells are placed in the honey supers, with cell protector. Very important...there must be a flow on.
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
Queenless nuc's seem to readily accept capped queen cells
John
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
Hmm,
Oldtimer, you place the cell in the top of the brood chamber.
Michael, you place the cells in the honey supers.
Both of you agree on the use of protectors.
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
Yes I think most put them in the honey super, or at leaast somewheer away from the main brood nest, just to keep them away from the queen. The brood nest way is just the way we did it at the time, but like a lot of things bees there's many ways to do something, and reasons why.
"We don't need no education" (Pink Floyd) - Yes you do, you just used a double negative.
Re: Re-queening by Cell Introduction
I feel placing the cells in the honey supers imitates what the bees do. Next honey season, look at the bottom of the honey supers...looking for queen cells. When you find a colony that has cells started along the bottom bars of the super, look in the broodnest for cells...thinking the bees are preparing to swarm. You just might not find any. I believe these two or three cells are actually supercedure cells, and the bees aren't planning to swarm at all. Placing ripe cells in the supers imitates what some colonies do anyway.....
Observe and Imitate
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