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Thread: pov article

  1. #1
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    Default pov article

    http://www.beesource.com/pov/usda/va...lerantbee.html

    anyone know what happened to this article. the title is supposed to be:

    “Producing Varroa-tolerant Honey Bees from Locally Adapted Stock: A Recipe”
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #2
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    Default Re: pov article

    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  3. #3
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    Default Re: pov article

    ahh, it was in 'resources', many thanks bc!
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #4
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    Default Re: pov article

    interesting article and it makes sense.

    this is pretty much what i was considering doing next season.

    basically, it's obtaining mite counts via alcohol wash to decide which colonies were better at dealing with the mites, and using that (along with production, workability, ect.) to decide from which to breed queens (and drones) from.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #5
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    Default Re: pov article

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    interesting article and it makes sense.

    this is pretty much what i was considering doing next season.
    Next season? And the next, and the next, and the next, and the next, and ........

    Sounds like the recent post where the OP plans on "making" his bees varroa resistant in two years. You do understand that some have been doing just what Erickson says to do...for years...and haven't got there yet. I'm not saying don't. I'm saying get ready for a long battle...worth doing, but long. I don't know your bees, but if they haven't come from stocks selected for any varroa tolerance at all, you won't have much to start with.

    I started this in 2004, although I don't practice the Bond method. Adding vsh stocks to my apiaries, raising queens from strong survivors, building the vsh content over the whole operation. My bees used to be crashing from varroa/viruses in August...even before I could get the honey off. Now they're going well into fall without noticeable crawlers and dwv out front.

    But, I'm not fooling myself, and I don't wish to commit hubris by claiming the job is done. I'm not so sure the job will ever be done, so the process goes on and on and on and....

  6. #6
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    Default Re: pov article

    yep, i agree michael.

    i was lucky to have someone nearby who started breeding from 'ferals' 12 years ago, and has not been using treatments of any kind. i was also lucky to get through 2 winters so far without any losses.

    like a lot of beginners, i was a bit overwhelmed at first with all that there was to learn, and learn how to do. the bees seemed to be doing well, they were supposed to have come from good stock, and i found it 'convenient' to not test for mites.

    i had my first loss about a month ago. i trace the problem back to letting a 3-4 frame walk away split make their own queen. the colony never did really grow, nor did it draw out much comb, and was feather light this fall. it had a nearly 100% infestation rate at the end.

    i ended up buying a double jar mite washer. it's pretty fast and easy. i'll definitely be more proactive going forward.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  7. #7
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    Default Re: pov article

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    and has not been using treatments of any kind...
    i ended up buying a double jar mite washer. it's pretty fast and easy. i'll definitely be more proactive going forward.
    What will you do when you get the results of the wash down?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #8
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    Default Re: pov article

    Dbl jar mite washer? Is that like a skyhook or a board stretcher?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #9
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    Default Re: pov article

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    What will you do when you get the results of the wash down?
    i'm still working on that ace, but for now, and if i discover a dangerously high mite load..

    pinch the queen
    cull the drone brood
    wait two weeks
    treat with maqs
    requeen with proven genetics




    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Dbl jar mite washer? Is that like a skyhook or a board stretcher?
    mark, it's this one:

    jar.jpg
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #10
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    Default Re: pov article

    Which you use to check mite loads?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #11
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    Default Re: pov article

    yes. a quarter cup of bees is about 150 of them. after the shake, you divide mites/bees. this will give you a % infestation rate. opinions vary over what is acceptable vs. what needs attention.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  12. #12
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    Default Re: pov article

    I've always used the pint jar and ether myself. I like the use of a plastic tyray and a measuring cup to get a more uniform amount of bees per sample. I also like to keep things as simple as possible. I like a bigger sample. 300 bees is more to my liking.

    How are you using that thing?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  13. #13
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    Default Re: pov article

    the results would be more reliable with 300, or 1/2 cup of bees.

    i have only used it once so far, on a dying hive, and it was all i could do to scrape up 150.

    oliver's recommendation was to shake a frame of nurse bees into a tupperware bowl, and accurately measure 1/2 cup (300) of bees. these are dumped into one of the jars that's about 3/4 full with diluted isopropyl alcohol. the lid that fits between the two jars has a 1/8" screen. you put it all together, shake the bees up good in the alcohol, invert the jars, and the mites wash down with the alcohol into the empy jar, leaving the bees behind. in a minute or so, the mites settle to the bottom for counting.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  14. #14
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    Default Re: pov article

    mites.jpg

    this is what they look like.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  15. #15
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    Default Re: pov article

    Yup, that's a lot of mites.

    When I inspected for NYS we used a pint jar, a lid, and a can of starting ether. Scrape about two inches of livce bees off of a brood comb into the jar and shoot a spritz of ether into the jar and slap the lid on quick. Holding the jar lid in one hand shake the jar like ringing a bell, for about a minute if you can. When you stop, the bees will fall to the lid. Remove the lid and dump the bees. The dead mites will be stuck to the walls of the jar. Then wash the jar and reuse.

    W/ the addition of a plastic pan and a measuring cup the method becomes more standard as to size of sample. Try it, you might like it.

    I guess your alchohol could be strained and reused.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  16. #16
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    Default Re: pov article

    yep, i am going to shoot for standardizing the sample size, and the alcohol is reused after straining the dead mites out.

    it should go pretty quick once i get the hang of it.

    oliver mentions that a 2% infestation rate in the spring is enough to affect honey production, and 5% in the fall lessens the odds of making it through the winter. i would be interested in what others have found in this regard.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  17. #17
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    Default Re: pov article

    Guys excuse my ignorance, but I have read in some papers published by the scientific comunity that when varoa appeared and became pandemic they basically wiped out the feral populationand there were great losses among kept hives. So the question I ask myself if the feral bees were wiped out, what is now feral is basically escaped swarms from the remaining kept hives. Hives that have known to habitate a certain place for years could be colonies that die out and get rehabitated by another swarm the next season for about a max. of 3 years before sucumbing to varoa. I have found such bee trees and found the occupiers to be swarms that had lately occupied the space, If they had not been removed the would not have survived the winter. So I am alittle sceptical about the value of feral hives being varoa tolerant. Please feel free to educate me on the value of feral hives.
    John

  18. #18
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    Default Re: pov article

    Feral bees have always been bees which were once in some persons beehive. We brought them to this country from Europe back in the early 1600s. Some say Spaniards brought them here even earlier.

    I'm pig headed about this, but I don't believe that feral colonies are any more mite resistant or tolerant than any other bees.

    I believe your observations are quite accurate and so to your conclusions.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  19. #19
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    Default Re: pov article

    good point johno, that's why i put the marks around 'ferals' in the post above.

    i don't know of any research in particular, but the working assumption is that there are colonies surviving in the wild that have developed resistant traits.

    i guess you would have to find them in areas far enough away from managed bees to be sure.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  20. #20
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    Default Re: pov article

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I don't believe that feral colonies are any more mite resistant or tolerant than any other bees.
    Can you give an explanation where the mite resistant bees come from? Is the beekeeping industry doomed because mites will eventually bring the honeybee to extinction?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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