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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    some one stated:

    I think it wiser to produce really good honey, market it well, and let those who can't tell the difference buy what they will.

    That is fine, but do you think you might get even more for your REAL honey if the buyers of funny honey had to buy the real think instead? Look at how much enters this country that is of questionable character, and what the price would be if it was halted.

    Crazy Roland

  2. #22
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    I read through some of the NC literature....seems to lack a definition of "pure honey".
    But I don't see any enforcement there unless you want to use their labels.

    ...if you use their labels, you cannot call your honey "raw" or "organic" . If I were running my business in NC, I would not get certified, and I would point out to my customers that the beekeepers in NC have decided for some reason that they can't produce raw honey, and that they have set up a silly certification system so they won't have to compete with raw honey.

    Deknow

  3. #23
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    Mar 2005
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    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    Confirming honey is honey is done accurately through carbon isotope testing - We send samples to Sirtech to be tested (www.siratech.us.com) as we have other large beekeepers near us and some may open feed which during a flow could get into our hives. If we buy any honey we certainly will test. It's cheap - about $45 bucks a sample, results in a week and good advertising. I'm certain one of our more chemistry minded beekeepers here can better explain the process than me.

    I think as an industry we need to maintain standards and keep the government out of it.

  4. #24
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    There are a number of tests....none of them will detect less than 5% sugar adulteration (I think the isotope test is 10% or 15% if I remember correctly).

    The wrench in the works with the isotope testing is also rice syrup adulteration.

    deknow

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,728

    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    One of the Court Cases sited at the eshpa Fall Mtng was barrels of Chinese Honey which had been labeled Rice Syrup. So it was funny honey, it was intentionally mislabeled to avoid tarif.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Wilmington, NC, 28403
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    800,000 lbs. of Chinese honey laden with pesticides was seized in just one seizure at our port this year. That honey all goes up the river about 35 miles to a forwarding plant where it is either bottled for sale in the US or liquified at shipped in tankers to the Midwest. I agree with Roland about the effect of the foreign honey. This year was a terrible honey year in NC. Lack of availability should drive up price but it won't due to the handful of guys here who have no qualms about selling foreign or out-of-state honey as local honey. One just bought 90 barrels out of GA but I guarantee you it will be sold as honey produced in his NC locality.

  7. #27
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    Dec 2008
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    Deknow wrote:

    The wrench in the works with the isotope testing is also rice syrup adulteration.

    Can you explain that ?

    Joel - are you doing Internal Stable Carbon Isotope Ratios, or just Carbohydrate Carbon ratios?

    Crazy Roland

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dumb View Post
    800,000 lbs. of Chinese honey laden with pesticides was seized in just one seizure at our port this year. That honey all goes up the river about 35 miles to a forwarding plant where it is either bottled for sale in the US or liquified at shipped in tankers to the Midwest. I agree with Roland about the effect of the foreign honey. This year was a terrible honey year in NC. Lack of availability should drive up price but it won't due to the handful of guys here who have no qualms about selling foreign or out-of-state honey as local honey. One just bought 90 barrels out of GA but I guarantee you it will be sold as honey produced in his NC locality.
    Shelf price has nothing to do w/ what was produced or not in any one given State or region of the country. Honey comes from all over the world(it's a saying, not literally) and we don't even produce half of what is consumed, so where do you think it's supposed to come from? Nature, and commerce, abhores a vaccum, it will be filled.

    Raise your own price. Don't pay so much attention to what others do. Sell your own honey. Set the price high. You might take all year to sell your whole crop, but so what. You will make more profit.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #29
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    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montgomery County, NY
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    1,701

    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    I agree with Mark. Set your price and sell your honey.

    We don't need a legal SOI to sell our honey. We may just need to register with the USDA so we can get harrassed by Dept of Homeland Security.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
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    5,321

    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    There are a number of tests....none of them will detect less than 5% sugar adulteration
    As the natural sucrose content of honey varies between 2.5% and 7%, how would you interpret a sucrose content of 5% in honey?

  11. #31
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    It isn't just a test for the presence of sucrose, it looks at the (I think carbon) isotopes that make up the sugars.

  12. #32
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    ...ask your friendly neighborhood testing lab if they can detect rice syrup adulteration well enough to pit it on a report.
    Deknow

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    Websters definition of honey has nothing to do with laws that govern what is being sold as honey. it is about penalties for selling things that do not comply with the law. It is about protection of the consumer and the producer.

    I don't think it should be illegal to sell "Honey Products". Laws that cause non honey products to me labeled as not real honey for example yes. but consumers have the right to buy fake honey and producers have the right to supply it. Consumers should have the ability to know what they are buying though. Most still won't.

    Not having such labeling hurts the honey producer in that consumers simply get discouraged and stop buying any honey at all. because they know a lot of it is fake and can't tell the difference. Honey producers will never cause the changes. consumers will if they make enough of a stink about it.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  14. #34
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    Jun 2009
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    Montgomery County, NY
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    Don't we already have laws about labeling in effect? Isn't that why we label our honey as "PURE Honey"? The word pure meaning no adulteration?

  15. #35
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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    I know one leading honey packer that is using SIRA (stable isotope ratio analysis) for determining authenticity of honey. I am not knowledgable enough to know much about the specifics but I have read it is being used to judge purity for many other food products as well.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  16. #36
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    Mar 2009
    Location
    Niskayuna, NY, USA
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    97

    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)


  17. #37
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    Jun 2009
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    Montgomery County, NY
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    Doesn't the above two laws cover selling adulterated honey?

  18. #38
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    Mar 2009
    Location
    Niskayuna, NY, USA
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    97

    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    Article 17: ADULTERATION, PACKING, AND BRANDING OF FOOD AND FOOD PRODUCTS

    It seems it covers branding and packing too. The honey definition seems pretty simple to me.

  19. #39
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    Jun 2009
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    Montgomery County, NY
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    as it should be.

  20. #40
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    Mar 2005
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    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    Default Re: NYS Standard of Identity (SOI)

    Stable Isotope Ratio Analysis is what is being done for us at Siratech. I also spoke with Venture Labs this year ( Kentucky I think) adulteration can be identified at well below the 10% range. I'll see if I can reconfirm what the numbers are and get back.

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