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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    United States Chico CA
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    I agree that everything has a pricetag. Let''s continue with genetics (My II VSH Breeder Queens had a 60% VKF (mitebiting)
    on top of broodhygenics) and management (dividing...) to overcome the problem. 30% should always survive hopefully 70-80%.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,611

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    It seems to me that by this thread that most agree that success is defined by the beekeeper. If the beekeeper says they are successful, they are successful. I also notice that this applies only it situations that do not effect any other beekeeper.

    To change that factor I offer this.
    Do you think it is acceptable for a bee breeder or queen rearer to market their bees as the best based upon the same requirements to determine what is the best? He says they are the best so they are? Or does the idea that it effects other people change your view?

    If no definition of successful exists. Can you dispute their claim? They can simply counter your claim by saying your expectations are unreasonable. And that beekeepers with adequate skill find exceptional results with their bees.

    Overall I am trying to describe a situation that can be created that no matter what the quality of the product is. it cannot be disputed. because the only measurement of quality is the beekeepers opinion of their product.

    And does the free for all definition of success still hold up under those conditions for you?
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,440

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    A good point Daniel. In the non beekeeping world, a general definition of success would be at a minimum, as good as average. But usually, some degree better than average. And that would be against everybody elses standards, not just ones own.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Indianapolis IN 46227
    Posts
    289

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitetail View Post
    There are a vast array of variables leading to their demise.
    One of which is not treating. A presumably competent beek looses half his hives. Ouch. After following this thread and others like it, I think some plan to control mites is prudent and will be following through in the spring.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,611

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    According to that, An overall standard of successful could be set by determining at least what is average.


    So the next question is. Who is qualified to set that standard?
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Indianapolis IN 46227
    Posts
    289

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    IMHO, MP is. He states in his video that bees "are just not there yet" when asked about going treatment free.
    Last edited by DonShackelford; 12-14-2012 at 05:45 AM. Reason: clarification

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    MP isn't treatment free. The title of this thread is being TF.
    Regards, Barry

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,043

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    are you tf barry, and have you been successful?
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,494

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    I'm not TF and some would question whether I have been successful, so, what does successful mean? Not to mention sustainable. Is sustainability a measure of successfulness?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,043

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    jmho mark, but unless someone is is just keeping bees for pets, i would say that sustainability would be the minimum measure of success, followed by some degree of productivity.
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
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    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    Then, according to Kim Flottum's statement in December's issue of Bee Culture, beekeeping itself is not "successful", since, according to Kim, beekeeping is not sustainable. I guess we will have to see where wer are 20 years from now.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    perhaps kim is underestimating the determination of the beekeeper, (and the bees).

    are reasons given for this view?
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
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    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    You should read what Bee Culture's Editor wrote.
    No, I don't have a link.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    St. Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    555

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    I'm not a businessperson and this is oversimplified but in general in business don't you consider your business a success if you meet that year's business goals and objectives (which generally include some growth and expansion).

    In a beekeeping business wouldn't that mean that you have met or exceeded the goals you set and commitments you made while staying treatment free (and staying in business)?

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    Yes, I stopped treating around '03. Successful for myself, but I don't make a living from bees. I have been able to keep a handful (up to 15) of hives that produce all the honey I care to deal with. I had to consolidate my hives several years ago due to personal reasons, but am now increasing my numbers. I'll give it another two years, and if the numbers hold, I'll see no reason to change.
    Regards, Barry

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    We need to keep in mind that there is a vast difference between one who makes a living from bees and one who doesn't, in regards to being successful.
    Regards, Barry

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,196

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    Kim must be referring to commercial beekeeping as we know it. I don't believe bees are on their way out by any means, but the ability to use them for our gain may be waining.
    Regards, Barry

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    understood barry, thanks.

    if i may ask, are all of your bees regressed? do you avoid any and all treatments? do you requeen from your own stock, and if not, do you have a preference when purchasing queens?
    beekeeping since june 2010, +/- 20 hives, tf

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    I take what I can get. Last year I did a couple cut-outs, so those bees got added to the sum total. I also did walk-away splits from several existing hives. Most of my existing equipment is now occupied by bees going into winter. This next spring will determine where I'm at with bees.

    Any and all treatments. I did have one hive early this year get EFB. I took the route of eliminating the bees and comb. If I were to ever find AFB, I'd burn.
    Regards, Barry

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    Requeening usually works Barry.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

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