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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,238

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    thanks barry.

    foundationless? and if not what is your preferred foundation?

    no treatments at all for mites?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,303

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    True Mark, but I decided to go the route I did based on what was going on at the time. I felt the hive was too far in the wrong direction, it was a small hive and I didn't feel I had the time to baby it along with everything else I was doing to increase.
    Regards, Barry

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,303

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    I've been using the 4.9 wax foundation I milled at the Lusby's from my own wax. I'm not that happy with it cause there is no cell wall ridge at all, so it's very easy for bees to ignore the cell size and build larger. I'll be trying out the PF-120's next year and if that goes well, I'll use up my wax and then switch to all PF's.

    OK, third time, NO treatments!
    Regards, Barry

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,238

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    good work barry. i'm a little dense at times.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dexter, Missouri USA
    Posts
    96

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    We've identified the definition of success is variable according to one's own goals. To the original question on how long it takes to be successful? It can be done in one season. I've seen the results of my own complete stock change. I went from a winter survival rate of less than 50 % while treating, to an average of 98.9 % survival over the last two winters. Absolutely no treatments were administered. For the last three years. I've got some hives I acquired who have not been treated for 7+ years and have never been a dead out. Most folks will never get there, especially the ones who never try, only insisting it can't be done without treatment. I've noticed we have several of those commenting on this thread. To be successful will require a lot of research to acquire certain characteristics in your stock, as well as an above average understanding of proper management techniques, honeybee behavior, and nutritional requirements. You'll also need a deep down drive to devote yourself and your operation to this, and not believe all the nay saying that it can't be done. You may at some point take a nice loss. I've yet to read about regimentally treating operations not losing bees as well... To each their own.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,695

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I did have one hive early this year get EFB. I took the route of eliminating the bees and comb. If I were to ever find AFB, I'd burn.
    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Requeening usually works Barry.
    Just for the benefit of any newbies reading the thread, Mark I'm guessing that remark was meant for EFB but not AFB?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,094

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    Yes Oldtimer, EFB, not AFB.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ft. Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    516

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    This will be my 13th year treatment free. I do raise a lot of queens each year from the best survivor stock in addition to other VSH stock. As others have mentioned any production hives that aren't producing get nuc'd up and new queens added. So, it's a constant rotation of new young vigor being added each year. Without that I don't think you can hold on. I rely on swarms and my catcher hives to help make up for my annual losses. I get a good harvest of honey from all the production hives if I can leave them alone separate from my queen rearing needs for stock. I feel I'm successful in the ones that are able to overwinter. Pretty simple. I think the saying " if you want a lot of bees or hives, start with a lot more bees and hives".

    Also, in addition to the treatments, I really don't think you can forget climate and winter locations. Some of us deal with some harsh conditions that have a drastic effect on our numbers and success.
    Last edited by Brandy; 12-16-2012 at 08:14 AM.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    624

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    We are TF, no chemicals used for over 5 years. In that time we have grown from 10 hives to over 200. The last cpl years we have sold 40 to 50 nucs each spring. This year I sold 400 queens and plan to double that next year. This year we averaged over 100 lbs honey off of 150 production hives. We used VSH breeders the last 2 years, MN Hyg the year before that, and Purvis Bro. the year before that. Our average losses each year are less than 20%. We are not migratory and our bees have good forage of varying type thru the year. Althogh I would consider us very successful what works for us may not work for you.

    Honeyhouseholder looses 100% of his bees each winter but I would consider him sucessfull.

    A migratory beekeeper who looses 40% of his hives but makes up for it in splits each year is successfull if he meets his contract requirements and makes the profit he expects.

    There is no one test of success.

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    United States Chico CA
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

    Life is a mix of failure and success. If you learn from your failures then you turn them into a success.the university of Hohen Neuendorf
    is using infrared cameras to monitor which sister families are are responsible for VSH. Among other things they can then trace it back
    to the one drone via genetic markers that mated with the queen.
    Eric Osterlund gave a talk in Celle.
    You tube Eric Osterlund Celle 18.11.2012

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