How long do you have to be TF before its a success?

[Hans]

I agree that everything has a pricetag. Let''s continue with genetics (My II VSH Breeder Queens had a 60% VKF (mitebiting)
on top of broodhygenics) and management (dividing...) to overcome the problem. 30% should always survive hopefully 70-80%.

[Daniel Y]

It seems to me that by this thread that most agree that success is defined by the beekeeper. If the beekeeper says they are successful, they are successful. I also notice that this applies only it situations that do not effect any other beekeeper.

To change that factor I offer this.
Do you think it is acceptable for a bee breeder or queen rearer to market their bees as the best based upon the same requirements to determine what is the best? He says they are the best so they are? Or does the idea that it effects other people change your view?

If no definition of successful exists. Can you dispute their claim? They can simply counter your claim by saying your expectations are unreasonable. And that beekeepers with adequate skill find exceptional results with their bees.

Overall I am trying to describe a situation that can be created that no matter what the quality of the product is. it cannot be disputed. because the only measurement of quality is the beekeepers opinion of their product.

And does the free for all definition of success still hold up under those conditions for you?

[Oldtimer]

A good point Daniel. In the non beekeeping world, a general definition of success would be at a minimum, as good as average. But usually, some degree better than average. And that would be against everybody elses standards, not just ones own.

[DonShackelford]

There are a vast array of variables leading to their demise.

One of which is not treating. A presumably competent beek looses half his hives. Ouch. After following this thread and others like it, I think some plan to control mites is prudent and will be following through in the spring.

[Daniel Y]

According to that, An overall standard of successful could be set by determining at least what is average.


So the next question is. Who is qualified to set that standard?

[DonShackelford]

IMHO, MP is. He states in his video that bees "are just not there yet" when asked about going treatment free.

[Barry]

MP isn't treatment free. The title of this thread is being TF.

[squarepeg]

are you tf barry, and have you been successful?

[sqkcrk]

I'm not TF and some would question whether I have been successful, so, what does successful mean? Not to mention sustainable. Is sustainability a measure of successfulness?

[squarepeg]

jmho mark, but unless someone is is just keeping bees for pets, i would say that sustainability would be the minimum measure of success, followed by some degree of productivity.

[sqkcrk]

Then, according to Kim Flottum's statement in December's issue of Bee Culture, beekeeping itself is not "successful", since, according to Kim, beekeeping is not sustainable. I guess we will have to see where wer are 20 years from now.

[squarepeg]

perhaps kim is underestimating the determination of the beekeeper, (and the bees).

are reasons given for this view?

[sqkcrk]

You should read what Bee Culture's Editor wrote.
No, I don't have a link.

[Colleen O.]

I'm not a businessperson and this is oversimplified but in general in business don't you consider your business a success if you meet that year's business goals and objectives (which generally include some growth and expansion).

In a beekeeping business wouldn't that mean that you have met or exceeded the goals you set and commitments you made while staying treatment free (and staying in business)?

[Barry]

Yes, I stopped treating around '03. Successful for myself, but I don't make a living from bees. I have been able to keep a handful (up to 15) of hives that produce all the honey I care to deal with. I had to consolidate my hives several years ago due to personal reasons, but am now increasing my numbers. I'll give it another two years, and if the numbers hold, I'll see no reason to change.

[Barry]

We need to keep in mind that there is a vast difference between one who makes a living from bees and one who doesn't, in regards to being successful.

[Barry]

Kim must be referring to commercial beekeeping as we know it. I don't believe bees are on their way out by any means, but the ability to use them for our gain may be waining.

[squarepeg]

understood barry, thanks.

if i may ask, are all of your bees regressed? do you avoid any and all treatments? do you requeen from your own stock, and if not, do you have a preference when purchasing queens?

[Barry]

I take what I can get. Last year I did a couple cut-outs, so those bees got added to the sum total. I also did walk-away splits from several existing hives. Most of my existing equipment is now occupied by bees going into winter. This next spring will determine where I'm at with bees.

Any and all treatments. I did have one hive early this year get EFB. I took the route of eliminating the bees and comb. If I were to ever find AFB, I'd burn.

[sqkcrk]

Requeening usually works Barry.