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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    3,562

    Default Round two - and the champ is down!

    http://www.honeycolony.com/article/c...his-bee-hives/

    Not sure if this has been posted yet - Hearing from everywhere about fall bee absconding and loses. With the expected El Nino impact on spring queen breeding and the queens needed to these kinds of losses we are expecting short supplies and likely high supersedes due less quality queens. We best all row together and in sync. At least one large supplier has put out notification they are only promising 75% of queen orders placed in January!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    13,240

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    The father-and-son team went from 1700 hives at the beginning of winter to a little less than 300.
    Why do you suppose he is getting hit harder than other commercial beekeepers? Anyone know if he is breeding his own stock or buying it? BTW 1700 down to 300 would be a 82% loss which is still gut wrenching.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    13,240

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Could this be the problem?
    BELTSVILLE, Md., Feb. 10, 2016?Temperature extremes during shipping and elevated pathogen levels may be contributing to honey bee queens failing faster today than in the past, according to a study just published by U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) scientists in the scientific journal PLOS One.

    "Either stress individually or in combination could be part of the reason beekeepers have reported having to replace queens about every six months in recent years when queens have generally lasted one to two years," explained entomologist Jeff Pettis with the Bee Research Laboratory in Beltsville, Maryland, who led the study. The Bee Research Laboratory is part of USDA's Agricultural Research Service.

    Queens only mate in the first few weeks of life. Then they use the stored semen to fertilize eggs laid throughout their life. Queen failure occurs when the queen dies or when the queen does not produce enough viable eggs to maintain the adult worker population in the colony. Replacing queens cost about $15 each, a significant cost per colony for beekeepers.

    Commercial beekeepers usually order their replacement queens already mated, and the queens are shipped to apiaries from March through October. Researchers questioned whether temperature extremes during shipping could damage the sperm a queen has stored in her body. During simulated shipping in the lab, inseminated queens exposed to 104? F (40? C) for 1-2 hours or to 41? F (5? C) for 1-4 hours had sperm viability drop to 20 percent from about 90 percent.

    In real-world testing, queens, along with thermometers that recorded the temperature every 10 minutes, were shipped from California, Georgia and Hawaii to the Beltsville lab by either U.S. Postal Service Priority Mail or United Parcel Service Next Day Delivery in July and September. Researchers found that as many as 20 percent of the shipments experienced temperature spikes that approached extremes of 105.8? F and 46.4? F for more than 2 hours at a time. Those exposed to extreme high or low temperatures during shipping had sperm viability reduced by 50 percent.

    "The good news is with fairly simple improvements in packaging and shipping conditions, we could have a significant impact on improving queens and, in turn, improving colony survival," Pettis said.

    Assessments of the queens sent in by beekeepers for this study found that almost all of them had a high incidence of deformed wing virus; Nosema ceranae was the next most commonly found pathogen.

    Beekeepers had also been asked to rate the performance of each colony from which a queen came as either in good or poor health. A clear link was found between colonies rated as better performing and queens with higher sperm viability. Poorer performing colonies strongly correlated to queens with lower sperm viability.

    "We saw wide variation in both pathogen levels and sperm viability in the queens that were sent in to us, and sometimes between queens from the same apiary in July and September, so there is still more research to do. But getting queens back to lasting two years may well be one of the links in getting our beekeeping industry back to a sustainable level," Pettis said.
    This quote came from a member of another forum.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    3,415

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    here is a good discussion about it.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...0-Poster-Child
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    3,415

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post

    Not sure if this has been posted yet - Hearing from everywhere about fall bee absconding and loses. With the expected El Nino impact on spring queen breeding and the queens needed to these kinds of losses we are expecting short supplies and likely high supersedes due less quality queens. We best all row together and in sync. At least one large supplier has put out notification they are only promising 75% of queen orders placed in January!
    a person at our last beekeeper meeting said another stationary beekeeper that had hives in norther NY near Mr. Hackenburgs hives heard about his losses and checked his hives during the warm stretch of weather and he said his bees didn't look to good.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    1,869

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    One possible solution to the Monsanto / Bayer / 3M / Dow / etc. problem is to outlaw / deny all patents of biological traits.

    That loophole needs to be closed, too.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    4,634

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Is every commercial operation having bees within flying distance of farmland using these chemicals experiencing the same % of losses?

    I have no dog in the fight either way with the chemical companies, but "if" they are the root cause of the losses wouldn't this be happening everywhere they are used?
    To everything there is a season....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    13,240

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gillmore View Post
    Is every commercial operation having bees within flying distance of farmland using these chemicals experiencing the same % of losses?

    I have no dog in the fight either way with the chemical companies, but "if" they are the root cause of the losses wouldn't this be happening everywhere they are used?
    There are so many variables it makes it hard to put your finger on it. Rain and drainage could make a difference, the type of crops, order of crops even hydrofracking.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    4,634

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    I followed you right up to fracking, you lost me there.
    To everything there is a season....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    6,657

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gillmore View Post
    Is every commercial operation having bees within flying distance of farmland using these chemicals experiencing the same % of losses?
    Does Clothianadin corn count?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    4,634

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    I don't really know, but I would assume it could be included in the group of suspected culprits. Is Clothianadin corn grown throughout the country, or just near Hackenburgs hives?
    To everything there is a season....

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    4,634

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    You live in Ohio so you think these problems don't affect you but what if they do?
    We have a tremendous amount of fracking in the state of Ohio and I'm certain it has absolutely nothing to do with hive losses. Vertical fracking has been going on here for decades and it is well monitored by both state and federal agencies. "Horizontal" fracking that we hear so much about today is relatively new, but it is the same basic process as vertical fracking. The pipes are encased in concrete through the underground water reservoirs and the actual "Fracturing" takes place well below any underground water supply, sometimes a mile deep under ground. The water used for fracking is contained and disposed of according to federal and state guidelines, and believe me it is very well monitored.
    To everything there is a season....

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Massac County, Illinois
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Thanks for your excellent explaination!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    3,562

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    We are hearing about an unusual number of hives from places separated by hundreds of miles with good populations the last week of October and 2 weeks later not a bee left alive, no dead bees in the hive, spotty brood patterns and plenty of honey?????? Could it get more confusing? Good Post by Ace, I think there is a great deal to be considered about those issues. Many of the absent hive beekeepers believe the bees just abscounded, I am more of the though that it was a population collapse with bees dying outside the hive on flights and populations dwindling.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    4,392

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Perhaps we're seeing some resistance to the mite treatment du jour. Neonics been around a long time, all of a sudden they're causing massive and yet unexplained losses???

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
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    3,415

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    Many of the absent hive beekeepers believe the bees just abscounded, I am more of the though that it was a population collapse with bees dying outside the hive on flights and populations dwindling.
    I think one of the key words above is "absent" , and from another post maybe seeing some resistance. My take would be, NY had one of the best flows in the last 10 years, how many beeks kept the supers on until the last of the honey was in, then threw on some kind of mite treatment and became absent. The description of last time I saw them the hives looked great then I came back and spotty brood patterns, no bees and plenty of honey. as mike palmer would say did you pull out some of the capped brood and look at the abdomen. sure sounds like mites to me.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    4,634

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    We are hearing about an unusual number of hives from places separated by hundreds of miles with good populations the last week of October and 2 weeks later not a bee left alive, no dead bees in the hive, spotty brood patterns and plenty of honey??????
    Could it be Nosema C.?
    To everything there is a season....

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Stilwell, KS
    Posts
    2,582

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    I say the problem is from cell phone towers disrupting the bees navigation.

    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    1,014

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    It would be interesting to see if the ELAP program was defunded if their hive numbers would improve.......
    20 hives, 10 years, T and TF, All local stock

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: Round two - and the champ is down!

    Quote Originally Posted by hilreal View Post
    It would be interesting to see if the ELAP program was defunded if their hive numbers would improve.......
    I don't know what their circumstances are so I won't say much about it other than it would be interesting to see if the commentary is different. I do know the only relatively sure way to get paid under ELAP here is to claim CCD as the cause of the loss. I know when I've talked to our county USDA office about the program and ask them how they define a CCD loss they tell me it is hives with no bees left in them. In my experience if one tries to go with a claim based on weather in our area it is almost impossible. 7 days of cold temperatures below some number (which I forgot the temp now, but I recall looking back through historical temperature records for our area and it almost never, meaning once in 50 years, stays that cold here for 7 days in a row). So if anybody asks what happened to your hives the answer should always be "they just disappeared"......
    www.capitalbeesupply.com
    Manufacturers and Purveyors of Fine Beekeeping Equipment

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