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  1. #41
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by tabby View Post
    I have stereotypical engineering communication skills and it hurt me.
    Of course, financially it will. Engineers have no problem communicating to other engineers, never have, never will. The problem comes in when they have to SELL their ideas to someone who doesn't have an engineering background. The better you are at selling the more you will advance. However the time it takes to solve problems increases exponentially because the optimum ideas get thrown by the wayside.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  2. #42
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Engineers have no problem communicating to other engineers, never have, never will. .
    How about a new acronym: IME (in my experience)

    IME, I have found your statement to be false. My conclusion is based on direct observation that has occurred since about March 2011.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  3. #43

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    If one do not believe it is a fact, why say it?
    Just because you or I believe something doesn't make it a fact. These forums are littered with contradictory opinions.....they can't all be facts.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  4. #44

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Facts, in my opinion, are irrefutable. As soon as we believe that our opinions are fact…our minds are closed.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  5. #45

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Engineers have no problem communicating to other engineers, never have, never will.
    I knew a couple of design electrical engineers who fought like cats and dogs. My favorite argument was over switching transistors. One said a 2N3638 was superior and the other insisted that a 2N5356 was. They were each so certain of their facts, that the company had to stock both devices.The funny part was that, in the field, I could look at a schematic diagram and tell which one of them designed the circuit by the switching transistors. And when one of the devices failed....I could easily substitute the other without any detriment....unless the designer discovered my change.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  6. #46
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    And when one of the devices failed....I could easily substitute the other without any detriment
    There is not enough information to draw a conclusion to this story but what comes across my mind is that they were more like salesman because if they were good or great engineers you wouldn't be needed. Habitual failures is exactly what I was talking about for the time it takes to solve a problem or I will add to never have it in the first place.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  7. #47

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    if they were good or great engineers you wouldn't be needed.
    Like the engineers who design autos...televisions....cell phones....dish washers....etc? I mean, if they ever fail....it must be the result of poor engineering....is that what you are saying?.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  8. #48
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Pretty much. You don't think they fail by design?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  9. #49

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Pretty much. You don't think they fail by design?
    I'm sure some things are designed for a specific life...others utilize the best technology of the day to be as durable as possible.
    My twenty five year old refrigerator...keeps on chugging along.
    Or...in my misspent youth. Autos needed a tuneup every twelve thousand miles, tires were worn out at about the same....and a car with 100k miles was ready for the junkyard. Yep....they don't make 'em like they used to.
    But we have strayed a great distance....and my only point was that engineers are pretty much like everyone else....they often speak in facts but also sometimes confuse opinion with fact.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  10. #50
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    Jul 2012
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    arvad, colorado, usa
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Of course, financially it will. Engineers have no problem communicating to other engineers, never have, never will.
    You have GOT to be kidding me!!!!!

    This is so funny, I just have to pass it around to other engineers.

  11. #51
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    Jul 2012
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    arvad, colorado, usa
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Pretty much. You don't think they fail by design?
    We don't design things to fail, but we do have budget and manufacturing constraints we have to work with, not to mention design and test schedules that can very aggressive in order to meet the market window. I never met an engineer who didn't do the best they could with what he/she had to work to with.

    OTOH, it's 53 F and the bees are up on my back porch looking for all those flowers that have recently frozen.
    Last edited by tabby; 11-19-2012 at 09:40 AM.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by tabby View Post
    You have GOT to be kidding me!!!!!
    This is so funny, I just have to pass it around to other engineers.


    But you are not thinking how Ace thinks. IMHO his thought process goes something like this:


    1. There is one and only one true solution to any problem. Period.
    2. Any true engineer will come to the same conclusion(s) and thus agree.
    3. Ace is one of those true engineers.
    4. If you disagree with Ace you are not part of the elite true engineer’s club.
    5. Thus all (true) engineers agree.


    Several other people on beesource have the same affliction.

    Besides circular reasoning and other fallacies, the illogical concept of “No true Scotsman” comes to mind.

    FWIW (For what it's worth) - Every engineer that I know goes by the "more than one way to skin a cat" philosophy.

    TIL (today I learned): There are many opinions Beesource. Everyone has one (or 10).
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,196

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by tabby View Post
    You have GOT to be kidding me!!!!!

    This is so funny,
    Ace just plays one on TV!
    Regards, Barry

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Fayetteville, Arkansas
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    5,018

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Don't hold Brian against the rest of us engineers.

    I have enough problems, being a visual thinker, trying to convert that to speech or even worse, text.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  15. #55
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    Jul 2012
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    Pierce/Thurson County, Wa
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    186

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    I have enough problems, being a visual thinker, trying to convert that to speech or even worse, text.
    I am the other way. I go from visual thinking, to a list (about enough for a text message), but with speech, I have to connect things together so people understand.

    When the doctors fried my brain, I could not stand and talk. It took too much brain power. If someone asked me a question, I had to lean against a wall to answer.
    If you think anything organic is good for you, go drink some organic solvents.
    geek, learning how to be a beek

  16. #56

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by seyc View Post
    When the doctors fried my brain
    Seems like I detect an underlying problem......
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  17. #57
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    Jul 2012
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Well actually, after they irradiated the brain tumor, my communication and social skills have improved. I don't remember how to do integrals and derivatives any more though. But then again, I am a biologist, not a mechanical engineer. Although, if someone could explain to me how magnets/electricity works, I would really appreciate it.
    If you think anything organic is good for you, go drink some organic solvents.
    geek, learning how to be a beek

  18. #58

    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by seyc View Post
    I don't remember how to do integrals and derivatives any more though.
    Me either and nobody fried my brain....that I'm aware of.....
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I knew a couple of design electrical engineers who fought like cats and dogs. My favorite argument was over switching transistors. One said a 2N3638 was superior and the other insisted that a 2N5356 was. They were each so certain of their facts, that the company had to stock both devices.The funny part was that, in the field, I could look at a schematic diagram and tell which one of them designed the circuit by the switching transistors. And when one of the devices failed....I could easily substitute the other without any detriment....unless the designer discovered my change.
    Ha Ha great work anecdote.

    And it got even more intriguing, when it suddenly hit me, those two engineers are both here, prominent posters on Beesource. Their writings and attitudes, to each other and the rest of the world leave no doubt at all, it's them! . LOL!
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  20. #60
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    Stilwell, KS
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    Default Re: In my opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    And it got even more intriguing, when it suddenly hit me, those two engineers are both here, prominent posters on Beesource. Their writings and attitudes, to each other and the rest of the world leave no doubt at all, it's them! . LOL!
    Actually IMHO, I think this means that 99 percent of the people posting on Beesource are engineeers, because just about everyone of us is arguing with Ace.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

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