outbreeding mites and overwintering nucs

[jmgi]

Adrian,

I look forward to seeing what the outcome is of your nuc survival based on the different times you started them. What were your earliest and latest dates of startup?

John

[Adrian Quiney WI]

John, the earliest ones have not had a brood break - unless they requeened themselves. The latest ones were made on June 17th. The mid ones were made the last week of May. All were taking cleansing flights today.

[jmgi]

Adrian, it will be interesting how this all comes out, next year I will be doing early ones as you did plus later ones also(late July/early Aug.)that will give us a longer time span to compare wintering results from. Was full sun here today and no wind, but temps were still a little cold for much flying, supposed to warm more this weekend.

John

[DonShackelford]

Don,

So are you overwintering nucs this year? How are you doing it? Thanks

John

I have 10 5 over 5 nucs going through the winter. 2 look pretty weak, but 3 others are in their 3rd 5 frame box. The stronger ones had all drawn comb to start with. This is my first crack at this. I've learned that here in Indy, a 2 frame split started August 1 will build up in time if I move it from another yard. 2 frame splits started in the same yard that same date lose too many bees. They may make it though, we'll see in the spring.

[jmgi]

Don,

I hope they pull through for you, sounds like they will. I do the same 5 over 5, my splits were 2-3 frame but kept them in the same yard and didn't move them away. I kept them confined for a few days hoping that would minimize bees going back, I think it helped some. John

[jmgi]

Don, forgot to ask how you are protecting them this winter? John

[DonShackelford]

Don,
I kept them confined for a few days hoping that would minimize bees going back, I think it helped some. John

Good idea John. I'l try that next time.

I'm protecting them in 2 ways;
1. Pushed them together in groups of 2 and 3
2. They are on the south end of my home with privacy fence on both ends of them. No wind, no people, and they still get about 4-5 hours of good sun. The brick wall they are facing seems to heat up as well. Haven't decided on further insulation yet. I'd like to spend any further protection making styro nucs for next year. From what I've learned here, they will pay for themselves.

[Daniel Y]

At what temperatures do nucs or full size hives for that matter need protection. We have very mild winters here and I have not added anything to my hives yet. Bright sunny days through out the winter I am a bit reluctant to ad anything that absorbs heat. This morning it is 41 degrees by this afternoon it could be in the 70's. this happens all winter. Coldest day so far has been 19 in the morning got into the 60's during the day.

So far my only thought on winter prep has been to wedge the inner covers for ventilation. And even with that not much as we have a very dry climate.

[jmgi]

Don, sounds like a good wintering spot, they may not need further protection or if anything just tarpaper them for more heat absorption. I too have been reading about styro nucs and how they winter bees real good. The white expanded styrofoam has an r-value of 3.8 per inch, the blue and pink extruded has r-value of 5, wood is r-value of 1, so there is a big difference. I like to make my own stuff as much as possible so I am looking forward to building some of these for next winter, wish I would have thought about it sooner to try it out this winter. John

[jmgi]

Daniel Y, you can get by without protection with those kinds of temperatures every day, ventilation is always important though. John

[Queenie]

Queenie sure MP is Michael Palmer, a regular poster on Beesource. Here are two links to his lecture an hour or so of the best viewing you can spend. http://vimeo.com/23178333
http://vimeo.com/23234196

Roland is also a regular poster on Beesource - this is a thread I started about my experimentation with his methods.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...y-be-crazy-but

Thank you! Just watched Michael Palmers lecture... Fascinating and inspiring!

[DonShackelford]

Just to contrast, MP doesn't make early spring splits. Mel's plan relies on it.
Mel says to make 2 frame splits one week before swarm season. We still get some intermittent chilly days here at that time. I tried a few early splits and witnessed chilled brood being hauled out after a cold snap. I'll wait until night temps are warmer next time.

I make my own parts as well John. Looking for a good styro plan. There would have to be wood strips at the top and bottom and in the frame rests.

Daniel Y, Sounds like you need hive protection in the summer rather than in winter.

[sfisher]

What if you just cut some styrofoam, and tacked all around your nucs for the winter, and then took it off come spring?

[DonShackelford]

What if you just cut some styrofoam, and tacked all around your nucs for the winter, and then took it off come spring?

I see you are in another thread where that person is doing exactly what you described. Being an old carpenter, I see this as building the same box twice, and a storage issue for all that foam when not in use. Better than nothing though.

[Adrian Quiney WI]

sfisher, this has worked for me in Wisconsin. The nucs are squeezed together on their stand. Each individual nuc's styofoam cover is on top of a FBIC, and the two outside nucs have a panel of styro. on the outside. I covered it with a wrap of pond liner and tied it all down.
http://s1110.beta.photobucket.com/us...ml?sort=6&o=42

I suspect that if you overwinter in SC you probably don't need to do this much work.

[jmgi]

Don, you make a good point about building the same box twice, using a styro nuc would eliminate that and still would give you about the same insulating value. Storing all that foam board is another downside I have to contend with every year too, besides being labor intensive, its getting where I dread going out to put the foam on every winter, there has to be a better way. John

[jmgi]

Adrian, I did my nucs exactly the same as you except for the pond liner a couple years ago. Unfortunately I didn't have good success that winter, wasn't the lack of insulation though. John

[Adrian Quiney WI]

John, time will tell whether or not it consistently works. The previous year I divided a hive, and half of it died out early - I don't know why - but the remaining half survived with little insulation and no close neighbors. All it had was a piece of styro on the top and a piece of tar paper.
I don't know if all the insulation is necessary, but it makes me feel better. I might experiment with less insulation on a group another year to see if it makes a difference.
My apiary is inconvenient for me, it is on quite a slope. Yet the slope is south-facing, and I have natural windbreaks from all other directions.

[jmgi]

Adrian, I am fairly confident that a full size (at least two story) hive doesn't need packing in the U.S. as long as they go into winter the way they should, especially with a good sized cluster, they can handle alot of cold just fine. Anything less than the ideal full size colony and nucs I feel would benefit from some additional insulation. I just don't see how a stand alone 5 frame nuc can make it in a northern winter without some help, I'm sure there are some that have done it though, as for me I will take the time to improve my odds. John

[Adrian Quiney WI]

John, I wasn't clear. My surviving nuc was 2 storeys of 5 frames. I am not brave enough to attempt wintering a nuc with only 5 frames.