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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Murray County, Georgia
    Posts
    213

    Default Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    A few weeks ago I began experimenting with o/a trickle. The fist batch I tried seemed not to work on a couple of test hives. Mixed a new batch Saturday and treated ten hives. Went back this am and did a sugar shake test on one hives that had a mite count of 25+ and found two mites. I was impressed. The option was buying $200 worth of apistan to treat 45 hives. I followed Mike Gillmore's recipe (with one exception) which was as follows:

    OA - 17.5 g.
    Sugar - 300 g.
    Water - 300 ml.

    Mix your sugar and hot water to make a syrup.
    Dissolve the OA crystals in a small amount of alcohol and blend with syrup.

    I purchased oxalic acid at Ace hardware and a 60ml syringe at tractor supply.
    My daughter had a chemistry scale. A digital scale that weighs grams could be purchased at walmart.
    I weighted out the water, sugar and oa, placed 1/4 of the water in a widemouth mason jar. I then heated the water in a glass measuring cup in the microwave and dissolved the sugar in the hot water. I added the acid to the water in the mason jar and with the lid closed shook until completely dissolved. I then added the syrup to the jar and mixed thoroughly. This recipe made about a pint which was enough to treat ten hives.

    Application: I filled the syringe and dripped five ml between frames with bees. The oxalic acid took care of the rest.

    Notes:

    1. I will need to do more mite counts to verify uniform results.

    2. Not sure why first batch didn't work. I followed a recipe that used hfcs instead of sugar syrup. Maybe I didn't mix thoroughly enough.

    3. It looks like this method will cost me about ten to fifteen cents per hive.

    4. Hives are currently broodless

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Lakeland, FL
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    Thanks for your report.
    Were the hives broodless the first time you trickled?
    Was the strength of the first batch the same as the second batch, or weaker?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Murray County, Georgia
    Posts
    213

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    The first hives had only a small amount of brood. The current hives are broodless. I believe the amount of oxalic total volume was the same. Either my syrup was more or less diluted than it should have been or I didn't mix it enough.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    3,415

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    Harry,
    Good point. I forgot to mention that I use distilled water only.
    My formula I believe is about 2.9%
    For a 3.4% concentration you would use about 20.4 g. of OA crystals with the same amount of water and sugar.
    I've always had excellent knock down results with the formula I use, but the higher concentration might be better. Never tried it but it sounds like it works.
    To everything there is a season....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
    Posts
    2,153

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    Commercial guys just use a pump sprayer. Adjust the nozzle to a steady stream and spray the OA between the frames........ quick & easy....no syringe.........
    Last edited by snl; 11-12-2012 at 02:07 PM.
    http://OxaVap.com
    Your source for the Varrox Vaporizer, "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    953

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    Your recipe results in a rather weak ( 2.8%) concentration.
    We shoot for 3.4%
    Also use distilled water so as to not cause interaction of acid & minerals.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
    Posts
    2,153

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    Ok Mike,
    So what's the final mixture all in one post?

    Larry

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    3,415

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    Most formulas seem to be targeting 3.2% - 3.5% concentration.

    If you only have a handful of hives and want to mix up less than a quart, try one of the following.


    3.2% concentration
    OA - 19.2 g.
    Sugar - 300 g.
    Water - 300 ml.

    3.5% concentration
    OA - 21.0 g.
    Sugar - 300 g.
    Water - 300 ml.

    A target of 20 g. of OA would put you somewhere in the middle.
    To everything there is a season....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
    Posts
    876

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    What is Oxalic Acid? How does it kill mites, and is there any affect on the bees? Thanks Steve
    https://www.facebook.com/stevesbees99
    Please visit my page, Thanks

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    3,415

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    Randy Oliver has written most of what you will need to know at his site below. Good place to start.

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxal...-1-of-2-parts/
    To everything there is a season....

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Appleton, NY
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    So how do you figure the % . What would the concentration of this be ?
    oa 292 g. sugar 4000 g. h2o 4000ml

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Massillon, Ohio
    Posts
    3,415

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    This thread caused me to go back and check my math. Looks like I need to make a correction in the calculation. I have not been including the weight of the OA in the total weight of all ingredients combined.

    themrbee
    292 / 8292 = .0352 or 3.52%

    Correction on the others above.
    19.2 / 619.2 = .0310 or 3.10%
    21.0 / 621.0 = .0338 or 3.38%

    22.0 / 622 = .0354 or 3.54%

    I'm surprised my original formula has been working for me at such a low percentage.
    Last edited by Mike Gillmore; 11-21-2012 at 10:16 AM.
    To everything there is a season....

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Bonn, Germany
    Posts
    122

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    Quote Originally Posted by themrbee View Post
    So how do you figure the % .

    What would the concentration of this be ? oa 292 g. sugar 4000 g. h2o 4000ml

    I use mass concentration % [Mass/Volume].


    Example 2

    ΔV = 292 [g] x 0.605 [mL/g] = 176.66 [mL]

    V1:1 = 4000 [g] x 1.63 [mL/g] = 6520 [mL]

    volume of the mixture V = V1:1 + ΔV = 6520 + 176.66 = 6696.66 [mL]

    mass concentration of OA dih. = 292 [g] / 6696.66 [mL] x 100 % = 4.36 % OA dih.



    Example 1

    mi = 17,5 [g] OA dih.

    ΔVi = 17.5 [g] x 0.605 [mL/g] =10.5875 [mL]

    V1:1 = 300.15 [g] x 1.63 [mL/g] = 489.2445 [mL]

    volume of the mixture V = V1:1 + ΔV = 499.832 [mL] ~ 500 [mL]

    mass concentration of OA dih. = 17.5 [g] / 500 [mL] x 100 % = 3.5 % OA dih.


    Johann
    Last edited by sjj; 11-21-2012 at 04:58 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Appleton, NY
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Trickle report

    Thank You !

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Murray County, Georgia
    Posts
    213

    Default A further update

    Just wanted to offer an update after doing mite counts after treating 25 hives with oxalic acid trickle. Most of the hives had no brood or very little brood. Pre treatment mite counts via sugar shake test of 200 bees yielded mite counts between 5 and 30 mites. Post treatment I am finding counts in most hives of 0-2. I have a couple of hives that are showing counts of 7 and 9 per 200 bees. I'm not sure what is happening in the hives showing the higher counts after oa treatments.

    Since August I have tried several treatments on my hives and here's what I am seeing.

    Apistan on two hives: (no follow up count)
    Coumaphos: 4 hives: worthless
    Hopguard on 5 hives: worthless
    60% formic acid fumigator with honeybhealthy on 20 hives in August with large populations and brood nest with mite loads of 10-30 per 200: major knockdown to 2-4 mites per 200 bees, lost three queens
    Oxalic Acid trickle: Tried a formula on 4 nucs and was not effective, mixed again with the formula mentioned above but with 19 or 20 grams of oa on 20 hives with zero brood or less than a six inch patch of brood and mite loads of 5-30 mites per 200: 3/4 show 0-2 mites, other 1/4 had 7-9 mites.

    I will have to find a way to knock down mite loads that the oa didn't knock out. I'll probably use apistan.

    Conclusion: There are no silver bullets. Formic fumigator is effective but is rough on queens. Probably needs to be used in late may or early june when I rob to knock back the spring buildup of mites while leaving opportunity to requeen if there is queen loss. Oxalic is good to clean up bees for winter but sometimes you can't wait until they are broodless to get rid of mites. I probably should look at thymol for a september application and use oxalic acid trickle for late nov/dec. Formic and Oxalic Acid are only pennies per hive. If I have to purchase a thymol based product such as apiguard or apilife var will add an additional $2.00 per hive.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ludington, Michigan
    Posts
    638

    Default Re: A further update

    something I found out this year is a ml is the same as a cc. if you cant find a ml syringe smaller cc are readly available they just have to filled a few times to hit your 30 - 50 ML dose

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Posts
    223

    Default Re: A further update

    Thymol (Apiguard) worked well for me in three out of four treated hives. There appeared to be a correlation between removal of the gel from the tray and effectiveness of treatment. The fourth hive still has loads of mites, so I will be trying a "cleanup" treatment with OA in a couple of weeks.

    Mark

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