2012 Dieback Already?

[jim lyon]

The reason I requeen each year isnt because I think the queens are bad It's because #1 I want a brood break #2 a certain percentage always begin to fail the second year (if its even 10% i consider that high and #3 it's so doggone cheap and easy to do down south in the early spring

[Ian]

Okay, my turn to get yelled at. Please do not bully another member until you bully me.

I dont get it

[squarepeg]

tim,

so is the theory that the fungicides don't allow proper fermentation of the bee bread? any science out on that yet?

jim,

swing by alabama on your next spring queen run, i'll buy you a beer.

[Ian]

tim,

so is the theory that the fungicides don't allow proper fermentation of the bee bread? any science out on that yet?

Im hearing more and more about this. I do not believe there is any conclusions on this but I do believe it is being looked at,

Personally I need to see some science on it before I will draw any conclusions. There are many types of fungicides being used today, and our bees seem to be in contact with them all because most of the fungicides target flowers.

[Tim Stewart]

I dont get it

Good. Just it looked like some guys got a little hot water thrown at them, and I need a hot shower.

No, I don't have any proof, just thoughts. Draw your own conclusions. But you've (or at least some of you) have already done that.

I don't think we know enough about bees, little tummy microbes, fungicides, pollen, mites, or viruses. But we do have a decent way to combat them. Oh, I forgot nosema. Does anyone know anything about that? lol

Tim

[Ian]

Oh, I forgot nosema. Does anyone know anything about that? lol

Tim

Ha ha,
little tummy microbes , fungicides, nosema, hmmmm

[delber]

My theory is the bees got some sprayed pollen in blueberries, but stored it because they had good oak pollen at the same time that they preferred.

If I may ask a question. I thought that oak pollen was bad for the bees. I read somewhere that if they took oak pollen that it would kill the brood. Am I wrong in this? I have read that blueberries are also bad and perhaps this answeres that side of it. "some sprayed pollen in blueberries"

[Keith Jarrett]

If I may ask a question. I thought that oak pollen was bad for the bees. I read somewhere that if they took oak pollen that it would kill the brood. Am I wrong in this? "

Delber, here in Calif oak pollen in the spring is great, But Oak dew in the fall can spell disaster.

[Tim Stewart]

blueberry pollen isn't good for bees and I don't think fungicides help. We won't mention the gib. I hear NJ isn't as bad for blueberries as Maine, but they tend to come out with EFB, so I dust before and sometimes during blueberries.

Tim

[ryan]

This does seem to be one of those years that bees want to die. I saw results as described. A couple locations would be good, then the next would be almost a complete loss. Before any bees died I sent samples to BVS in Montana for virus and nosema tests. None or very low on both counts. It's all about what my bees got exposed to. Lots of Sunflower and other crops they spray. My bees were basically all the same going out of TX into the Dakotas. All Nucs with cells and a mite treatment.

It comes and it goes. Some years are better than others. Sometimes the bees survive the amount of stress they are exposed to and sometimes they don't. It's part of life where I live.

[Keith Jarrett]

It's all about what my bees got exposed to.

Or didn't get exposed to, maybe trying exposing them to some quality pollen sub in early fall may help. I had bee in ND mine haven't crashed. Why is it certain keeper don't have this problem?

[sqkcrk]

A subtle advertisement?

I saw the truckload of blue tubs of protien sub on Facebook. Good job Keith.

[Keith Jarrett]

blue tubs of protien sub on Facebook. .

Where?

Mark, I'm just not saying this, I mean it. With all due repect to those losing bees, all of my costumers that I keep in close contact with are fine. My phone has been ringing off the hook with beekeepers in panic about losing bees. It's very difficult to turn them around now, it's too late.

[ryan]

Hi Keith

Thanks for proving my point. I have fed and do feed piles of pollen sub starting as early as August 15-20. This year I got my hands on 12 tubs of your stuff. Nice stuff, but it can't save the walking dead. If the bees were in a bad spot, I was scraping your stuff off dead hives instead of Mann Lake's.

There are big differences in what bees are exposed to even within one county, say nothing about a state as big as ND. I have a lot of bees that are as good as you could ever hope for right now. It wasn't how soon I got the mite treatment, the last 3 yards treated look great. It's not virus or nosema, both tested negative and I treat Fumidal in the spring. And it wasn't the pollen sub, Mann Lake, brand X, or Jarrett Wonder Juice. The bees are Great or Died regardless.

As a rule, bees that CAN'T see sunflowers and canola from the bee yard do better than the bees that are up close and personal with the crops.

[sqkcrk]

Where?

Am "Friends" w/ Matthew Greene.

[sqkcrk]

Can we look back and see when and how things changed from a time when our bees got enuf of what they needed from the environment and now when we seem to need to feed protien patties and corn syrup or our bees will die? Is it the demands of what we want to do w/ our bees that has changed? Or what?

[jim lyon]

Ryan: interesting incites. Most everything I've seen this fall is explainable. The best bees were in areas where there was a late summer flow and the worst was where not much was going on. The earlier mite treated yards were generally better as well.

[ryan]

I've seen this on and off for 10-15 years. And I don't mean the mite damage from the 80s. I'm talking about late 90s when we all basically understood how and when to do basic mite control. I use lots of new comb for brood boxes. Not that mine is perfect, but I'm not running any old black brood comb.

Some years all my bees look great, other years not so much. Good management and feed inputs help, no question. Sometimes it's not enough.

[ryan]

Hi Jim

I'm not at all surprised. I hope that I don't sound shocked about some dead hives. The funny is that some years the bees survive all the stress thrown at them and some times they don't. One step behind the line and they all live. One step farther and they quit. I'd just love to know where the line is. Maybe I could get a really good crop where I'm at and still have great bees for CA. I'd love to have my cake and eat it too!!!

[Keith Jarrett]

This year I got my hands on 12 tubs of your stuff. .

Where did you find those tubs at Ryan?